South Carolina General Assembly
115th Session, 2003-2004
Journal of the Senate

Friday, March 7, 2003
(Local Session)

Indicates Matter Stricken
Indicates New Matter

The Senate assembled at 11:00 A.M., the hour to which it stood adjourned, and was called to order by the ACTING PRESIDENT, Senator GIESE.


The following was received:

Findings of Fact

The Committee to Screen Candidates for Boards of Trustees of State Colleges and Universities finds the following candidates for Boards of Trustees qualified. Background reports from the State Law Enforcement Division show no felony charges against any of the candidates.

Coastal Carolina University

Six congressional districts and two at-large

1st District, Seat 1     Mr. Clark B. Parker

2nd District, Seat 3     Dr. Oran P. Smith

3rd District, Seat 5     Mr. Payne H. Barnette, Jr.

4th District, Seat 7     Mr. Charles J. Hodge

5th District, Seat 9     Dr. Samuel J. Swad

6th District, Seat 11     Mr. Fred F. DuBard, Jr.

At-Large, Seat 13     Mr. Eugene C. Spivey

At-Large, Seat 15     Mr. Daniel W. Moore, Sr.

South Carolina State University

Three congressional districts

1st District, Seat 1     Mr. Arnold Collins

2nd District, Seat 2     Rev. Samuel B. Glover

Mr. Joseph C. Sanders

4th District, Seat 4     Dr. John H. Corbitt

Mr. James H. Owens

University of South Carolina

One judicial circuit

4th Circuit         Mr. John Long

Ms. Flora C. Hopkins

                Mr. J. Richard Jones

Mr. Karl H. Smith

Mr. Eugene P. Warr, Jr.

Wil Lou Gray Opportunity School


Two Seats

Mr. Lowell C. Spires, Jr.

Mr. George M. Ducworth

Respectfully submitted,
Rep. Olin Phillips, Chm.     Sen. Warren K. Giese
Rep. Becky Martin           Sen. Maggie Glover
Rep. Lanny F. Littlejohn     Sen. Thomas Alexander
Rep. Jesse E. Hines           Sen. Linda Short

State Supported Colleges and Universities
Boards of Trustees
Elections Required in 2003

The Citadel


Clemson University


Coastal Carolina University

Six congressional districts and two at-large

1st District, Seat 1       Parker

2nd District, Seat 3       Smith

3rd District, Seat 5       Barnette

4th District, Seat 7       Hodge

5th District, Seat 9       Powers

6th District, Seat 11       DuBard, Jr.

At-Large, Seat 13       Spivey

At-Large, Seat 15       Moore

College of Charleston

One seat, at-large

At-large, Seat 14       Dangerfield

Francis Marion University


Lander University


Medical University of South Carolina


South Carolina State University

Three congressional districts

1st District, Seat 1       Collins

2nd District, Seat 2       Glover

4th District, Seat 4       Corbitt

University of South Carolina

One judicial circuit

4th Circuit             Long*

Wil Lou Gray Opportunity School

Three Seats, At-large




Winthrop University


* Governor's appointee


Monday, February 24, 2003
10:33 a.m. - 1:21 p.m.

The meeting was conducted on February 24, 2003, at 427 Blatt Building, Pendleton Street, Columbia, South Carolina, before Karen L. Yearwood-Cole, Court Reporter and Notary Public in and for the State of South Carolina.


Representative Olin Phillips
Representative Jesse Hines
Representative Lanny F. Littlejohn
Senator Thomas Alexander
Senator Linda Short

Also present:
Sophia Floyd

CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: I would like to call this meeting to order. It's called the Screening Board Joint Committee screening candidates for the College Screening Board. I'll introduce you to our committee members present. We're expecting a couple more Senators or maybe Mrs. Martin will be in, is scheduled to be here. To my left is Representative Jesse Hines from Florence County, Representative Littlejohn of Spartanburg County to my right, Senator Thomas Alexander from Oconee County and myself as Representative Olin Phillip from Cherokee and our staff is Sophia, and we have with us today Sophia Floyd, staff member and with us today working from the Creel Court Reporting is Karen Cole. Thank you, Ms. Cole, for your services or this committee. I want to thank each of you for coming today and certainly for taking the time and being willing to serve on various boards that you've offered for. I think it's great that we have people who want to serve and do what they can for the various schools, universities, and colleges across South Carolina. You are to be commended for that service. At this time, we will start. We will swear in the candidates. I would like to say, to tell you up front that we will probably, try to finish everybody here today. We do have a couple more that will be screened, but they have no opposition, but we have to screen every candidate before we can declare your candidacy for the journal. Everybody has to be screened, even though you don't have oppositions. That's part of the screening process, part of the election process. We should have everybody's report in the journal as far as next Tuesday, and then after that the law says forty-eight hours, so we would say to you today, that next Thursday at 12:00, next Thursday week at 12:00, be March the 2nd -- March the 6th that you'll be able to start asking for support for your various seats that you're offering for and ones who have opposition. And of course, the ones who don't have opposition, you still need to, but that will be 12:00, next Thursday. Any questions?
REP. LITTLEJOHN: Mr. Chairman, I have one.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Yes, sir. Mr. Littlejohn?
REP. LITTLEJOHN: You swore these in one by one. Can we do it in a group?
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: We usually go through the order and then we sweat them all at one time.
REP. LITTLEJOHN: At one time?
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Oh, you're talking about -- no, we have to swear one and then take testimony from each one of them. I thought you meant candidacy. Any other questions as far as the election? Senator? You have no idea. You know, we've got a little problem now with our election process. We've held over the Public Service Commission for almost a year and a half now, and it seems we can't get an election date for the Public Service Commission and about sixteen other judges, so I would say that until we can settle PSC reform bill, which we've already passed in my committee and sent out, and will be on the calendar tomorrow.
SEN. ALEXANDER: I was going to say, Mr. Chairman, I think y'all are about to the point where y'all want to probably, from what I understand, y'all are going to pass Public Service.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: We've already, it goes on, it's on --
SEN. ALEXANDER: Well, the House is going to pass it this week is my understanding.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Yeah. It's on our --
SEN. ALEXANDER: It certainly puts things in a lot better perspective --
REP. LITTLEJOHN: Yeah, it does.
SEN. ALEXANDER: -- of where we're headed with these elections and things, but normally these are not held until May anyway, are they?
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: We, the law says we can't hold these election until some time after the first week in April, so normally we always go some time around May, so I don't, it's not going to be a problem. It's going to be a little longer because I don't know if we're going to be able to do it joint election with all three. It may be too long for us to do colleges and judges or the PSC and colleges. It might be we could do the colleges because of the fact that it does require joint committee of House and Senate combination. You will be notified in plenty of time when the election process will be. We will start a resolution very quickly to test and see whenever we can get a date, but you can rest assured it will be some time in May. Any other questions?
REP. HINES: Just an observation, Mr. Chairman. We certainly want to remedy that problem we had the last election where a telephone call was made at the time and that kind of thing will be continued and group telephone calls.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: I'm sorry. I didn't follow your line.
REP. HINES: I believe our last election there was a person that made a telephone call and may not have arrived in time for the election of --
SEN. ALEXANDER: Meet the deadline.
REP. HINES: Meet the deadline, right. Meet the deadline, that was it.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: We'll definitely check that. Everybody has met the qualifications for the deadlines this time.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Are we clocking them in?
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: We've changed our time from 12:00 to 5:00.
SEN. ALEXANDER: But are we clocking in the applications as we get them?
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Yes, when they come in. Did we have any come in --
MS. FLOYD: We didn't have any that close.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: We didn't have any come in on the Internet this time, so everybody has met their qualifications. We're joined by Sen. Short of Chester. We've just been going over some of the railroad of qualifications and when the, solicitation for votes is 12:00 Thursday week. Do you have any questions?
SEN. SHORT: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Okay. At this time, the process will start with the screening of the candidates and Coastal Carolina. All seats are up, but nobody has opposition, so you guys are doing a great job. Thank you very much. We will ask for the First District, Seat 1, Mr. Clark B. Parker. Mr. Parker will you please stand? Raise your right hand. The information given here today will be the truth, nothing but the truth, so help you?
MR. PARKER: Yes, sir
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Mr. Parker, do you have any illnesses that we need to know about that would prevent you from continuing serving in the capacity that you've served before?
MR. PARKER: Not that I'm aware of, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Have your business relations changed that you might have a conflict in continuing to serve on this Board?
MR. PARKER: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Okay, sir. Now, have you been appointed in any other positions that would constitute dual office holder?
MR. PARKER: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Go ahead with your short statement, sir.
MR. PARKER: I'm a graduate of Coastal Carolina. I grew up at the institution, and it was a two-year institution and it acquired a third year while I was on campus and a fourth year. I was able to graduate there with a BS degree in Accounting. I've been involved since that time with the Alumni Association or Booster Club, Senior Club and served on the Higher Education Commission for four years prior to coming to the Board and have been on the Board since this initial Board in 1993. My wife is also a Coastal Alum. We've lived in the community. We live nine miles from the University. We're on campus for a lot of events in our capacity helping out our school that helped us by providing an education opportunity for us and our County, so I'm glad to serve, and I will be glad to answer any questions that you may have.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any questions from any Committee members? Sen. Alexander?
SEN. ALEXANDER: Thank you. Again, we appreciate your service on the Board. Two questions I guess. What do you think besides the growth, maybe has been the greatest accomplishment since you've been on the Board, and the other is how have y'all been dealing with the economic conditions and certainly the reductions that we've had to deal with, with funds?
MR. PARKER: Of course, we look to, we used to call ourselves state supported. We call ourselves state assisted, I think now, because of the dwindling budgets that we have.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Would you prefer us not to divide the money?
MR. PARKER: No, sir. Thank God for that money. But we've been blessed with our location. We've been able to attract a lot of out of state assistance and support at the institution as well. And of course, their tuition is approximately three times what it is for an in-state, and that's helped our budget process. But I think one thing that we've worked on hard, and I think we're proud of, is that we knew there were retention issues earlier on and we made some strides in that area trying to retain those students who enter and getting them into a graduation process that would put them in for a four year period. So we're working on that, and I think we're doing great strides in that area. I think Coastal has enjoyed a lot of support from the community, private funding and foundation rate has helped us a lot as well, meet some budget issues, so with the support of the community and our strong foundation, that's been a blessing for the institution.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any other questions? I would like to say up front to all the Board members that I appreciate the opportunity to hold the hearings, the ones that made you whole several years ago as Chairman of the Education Committee. We held hearings across your area and had a lot of response, and I want to commend the school for its academics and also its ability in the area of athletics, because I think that would be another draw for Coastal in the future, and I wish you well in football. You've done well. Every time you come to Gaffney, you whip Limestone. We appreciate you having an overall athletic and academics, and I think it would be great for the future of Coastal.
MR. PARKER: Thank you. We appreciate it.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Yes, sir. Thank you, sir. Dr. Oran P. Smith. Would you raise your right hand? The information you give today will be the truth, nothing but the truth, so help you God?
DR. SMITH: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Please continue to raise your right hand. There's no other illnesses that we need to know about that is, to keep you from serving continuous?
DR. SMITH: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any business relations that you've entered in that would cause you to have a conflict?
DR. SMITH: No conflict, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: And no other appointments that you would be a dual office holder?
DR. SMITH: No other appointments.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: All right, sir. A short statement.
DR. SMITH: Chairman Phillips, Sen. Alexander, Sen. Short, Rep. Littlejohn, Rep. Hines, I thank you for the opportunity to appear before you. I am one of several members seeking re-election this time who are original Board members of the university when it was founded in 1993. What an incredible ten years it has been. Our facilities have grown. Our enrollment has grown, as you know, and our academic standards have been raised. Even our community service and our research activities have increased exponentially and we're truly, I believe, a university in every sense of the word. We even enjoyed, as you mentioned earlier, some athletic success. As chairman of the academic affairs committee for the Board, I've had a part in recommending many new courses of study at both the bachelor and the graduate level, and we've worked diligently to make Coastal Carolina a place for three things: That's solid scholarship, solid teaching and public service. And I stand before you this morning seeking a fourth term on the Board. We've had an exciting, I believe we have an exciting future ahead, and I ask for your support of my candidacy, of course, through the committee, but I'm willing to answer any questions that you may have.
SEN. SHORT: Mr. Chairman?
SEN. SHORT: Since you chair the academic committee and raised the issue of programs that you offer, could you tell me how, what kind of consideration you give to what other schools are offering across the state when you determine what kind of majors to offer at Coastal?
DR. SMITH: Well, there's often a certain amount of comparison that goes on so that we can make sure that we offer a full compliment of courses, but a lot of it is driven by the needs of our students and potential students. For instance, we offer some engineering programs with Clemson and we offer some business programs with Winthrop. Those are financial considerations that are in those because we're able to offer those by electronic means as well using some of our faculty and some of their faculty, but a lot of it depends on our view of what our institution should be. Some colleges, not to cast any opinions on any others, but want to be all things to all people, and we have not sought to do that. We've been very careful about what courses we offer and what new degrees we offer, seeking always to fit it in our primary goals, that is being a teaching institution with some graduate course, but always focusing on the teaching and being a teaching institution. So it's a combination of the market, the needs of our students and what the people of Horry, Georgetown area, in particular, need in an institution that they can reach easily.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any other questions? Rep. Hines?
REP. HINES: I would just like to know if all the growth that has taken place in your area, do you see a need at this time, a future need maybe, for expansion? I understand that's one of the fastest growing areas, not only in South Carolina but maybe in the nation, in that area.
DR. SMITH: I think Horry County is maybe a number one expanding county in the southeast, sir. We are doing a number of things. One is we're studying exactly how many students we can handle. Again, this is the idea of determining what's the best student to faculty ratio. What is the best use of our facilities, and we are currently in an analysis to determine how much more we can grow. We had such a big growth this year. Over the last two years, our enrollment has increased 28%, which is a 24% increase in FTE, and that raises these kind of questions. How many students can we service adequately with the faculty we have or the facilities we have, so we've been very careful about studying that. Also, we are in the mode of moving from one area to another in which we need a new facility. We just finished a new College of Fine Arts, and we, at the beginning of the institution in 1993, were in the process of finishing a business school. Our next major need on the campus is a College of Science or an expansion of our current science facility, so that's our next focus is making sure we're able to handle the science students and the entry level science course to advance courses to support our marine science, which has become a real focus of Coastal's academic work is the marine science program. So we're conducting the analysis that we need to for the future to make sure we can handle what we can handle, but we're also a capital campaign for science in particular to fill that need.
SEN. ALEXANDER: I'll just wait.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any other questions? Thank you, sir.
DR. SMITH: Thank you, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Okay. The Third District, seat 5, Mr. Payne Barnette, Jr.
MR. BARNETTE: Good morning.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Morning. Please raise your right hand. The information given here today will be the truth, so help you God?
MR. BARNETTE: My name is Hank Barnette, Payne H. Barnette, Jr.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Yes, sir. Mr. Barnette, please continue to raise your hand. Do you have any health related problems that we need to know about that would keep you from continuing to serve on the Board?
MR. BARNETTE: No, sir. I don't.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: All right. Do you have any business relations that would cause or constitute a conflict of interest?
MR. BARNETTE: No, sir. I don't.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Have you been elected or appointed to any other positions since you've been on the Board that we need to know about to cause you to be a dual office holder?
MR. BARNETTE: No, sir. I haven't.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Thank you, sir.
MR. BARNETTE: I would like to continue my support of the Coastal Carolina Board. I've been on it since its inception and have enjoyed seeing it grow, and I would like to continue my support and be a part of what the Board does for Coastal Carolina University. Anybody got any questions?
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Do you have any questions anyone?
SEN. ALEXANDER: Mr. Chairman?
SEN. ALEXANDER: What is the biggest challenge, and we've heard from previous folks as to the growth and things, what is the biggest challenge that you think the University is facing today?
MR. BARNETTE: Unfortunately, like most universities, we're, I'm on the Family and Fiscal Affairs Committee. I've been on it since the beginning, and one of the things we do is find ways to depend less on the State. Of course, we need all the support we can get, but we've come a long way in getting there, and I think the next part will be a little harder, and they'll need more of our help.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any other questions? Thank you, sir. Fourth District, seat 7, Mr. Charles J. Hodge. Raise your right hand, sir. The information given here today will be the truth and nothing but the truth, so help you?
MR. HODGE: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Sir, do you have any health related problems the Committee needs to know about at this time?
MR. HODGE: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Do you have any personal business conflicts to continue future services to cause or constitute a conflict of interest?
MR. HODGE: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Have you been appointed or elected any other position that would cause a dual officer holder?
MR. HODGE: No, sir.
MR. HODGE: Thank you. It's a pleasure being with y'all again. These two years that I've had the privilege of serving at Coastal have just been amazing. I've seen our university grow by leaps and bounds. We're up to almost six thousand students now. I've been very impressed with the administration and how they've exercised physical discipline in these difficult times. We managed to, while we welcome the State money, we've managed to adopt a strategy of maintaining our growth and our production with out of state student increase in tuition, so that's how we've handled a lot of it. Mr. Phillips, you mentioned the athletic program. This football that we've got coming in there is just super exciting. We have a great coach. Our stadium is going up. The interest in the community is phenomenal, and we just look for a real exciting time in years to come at Coastal Carolina I've enjoyed serving, and I hope that y'all give me the opportunity to serve for the next few years. Thank you.
REP. LITTLEJOHN: Yes, Chairman.
REP. LITTLEJOHN: Mr. Hodge, several of the people have mentioned growth. Is there a magic number there that we stop and then concentrate on quality or how do you feel about that?
MR. HODGE: I think that --
REP. LITTLEJOHN: Or are we just going on and on and on? It doesn't seem to --
MR. HODGE: There's going to come a time, there's no question about it, that you'll reach, you know, a certain number where in order to continue to provide the quality service that we do for our students and the fiscal plan itself. This science building that we've mentioned, we're attempting to get the Legislature to support us with bond issues, and that would be most appreciated. We're not asking for an increase in funds. But the figure of ten thousand students has been tossed about, and that's not set in stone, but you know, when you get near that number, you've got see number one, are you landlocked. I mean there's only so much room that you have. But it's exciting to be on the ground floor of it.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any other questions? Thank you, sir.
MR. HODGE: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Next is the Fifth Congressional District, seat 9, Dr. Samuel J. Swad. Good morning, sir. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear the information given here today will be the truth, nothing but the truth, so help you?
DR. SWAD: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Do you have any health related problems, Dr. Swad, we need to know about?
DR. SWAD: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Do you have a business or professional interests as not to constitute a conflict of interest?
DR. SWAD: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: And you don't hold any other elected or appointed position that would cause a dual office holder, do you, sir?
DR. SWAD: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Thank you, sir. I might add, Dr. Swan, this will be a new candidate. Dr. Swan is replacing a candidate who withdrew, not an incumbent who did not seek to run again, and Dr. Swad is a physician in my home county in Cherokee. We appreciate you offering, Dr. Swad, to serve on Coastal Carolina and also being a graduate of Coastal Carolina. Thank you, sir. Short statement.
DR. SWAD: Mr. Chairman and distinguished committee members, first of all, thank you for an opportunity to be considered as candidate for the Board of Trustees of Coastal Carolina University. I'm proud to be a 1986 graduate with a Bachelor of Science Degree in Business Administration and then went on to the University of South Carolina School of Medicine where I received my M.D. degree and am currently practicing, as Chairman Phillips said, in Gaffney, South Carolina. I've been raised and educated in South Carolina. I'm proud of that fact. I'm also proud to have watched how the current Board and Coastal Educational Foundation and faculty have really grown this small university. I think in the future we're going to continue that kind growth, and I would like to be part of that team. Like many other alumni, I'm also excited about the football program. Not just because it's football, because I think it's a surrogate market for the growth of that university and the job and the faculty and staff and Legislature and educational foundation have done. I would like to be a part of that process in the future.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any questions of Dr. Swad?
SEN. SHORT: Mr. Chairman.
SEN. SHORT: Since you're the first non-incumbent, the press has been critical of the separate trustee boards that we have across the state for all of the colleges and universities and have recommended that we support the Governor's proposal. That we instead have one unit that sort of covers everybody. I wondered how you feel about that particular proposal and how you think that might play for all of the colleges and universities around the state.
DR. SWAD: I would think that one board for all the universities might be a little bit of an unwieldy proposition. I would think each university has their own particular concerns and that a single board may not be able to address those as efficiently as individual boards.
SEN. SHORT: Do you think that the Commission of High Ed. should have more or less authority than it has at this time regarding majors that are offered at the university?
DR. SWAD: Well, I would think that the individual universities should have the most say in that. I think they know probably more what their student population is and what their students are demanding, but certainly a consolatory role would be appropriate.
SEN. SHORT: The research universities have requested this year that they be allowed to actually have a separate structure apart from the rest of the universities in the state. They want to be not under the Commission of Higher Ed as the rest would be, but to be pulled away from that and to be considered separate. They also have significantly increased the requirements for students who are there. I think they intend to increase it even more. What do you see, what impact do you see that having on Coastal or do you see it as having an impact at all?
DR. SWAD: Coastal is not really at this point a research university, so I'm not sure how much impact that would have at this point. I suppose when they reach this, whatever the number is, you know, the student body we're talking about, ten or fifteen thousand or whatnot, if they would go more towards the research side, that may be more initiative, but I'm not sure at this point.
SEN. SHORT: You're not concerned that the fact that they are trying to raise the requirements for the research university so much will have an impact on the number of students that might apply at Coastal and the out of schools as well, or that it might affect it in that way?
DR. SWAD: Sure. It could affect how many students apply, but the ones that may not envision being able to get into those research universities, but I think raising standards at the research universities is a positive overall.
SEN. SHORT: Do you know what the present requirements are or what the present average is for SAT at Coastal?
DR. SWAD: I don't.
SEN. SHORT: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any other questions? Thank you, Dr. Swad. The Sixth District, seat 11, Mr. Fred DuBard, Jr. The information given here today will be the truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you?
MR. DuBARD: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Do you have any health related problems that we need to know about?
MR. DuBARD: Not that I know of.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: All right. You have any personal conflicts in the position that you hold that would cause a conflict of interest?
MR. DuBARD: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Have you been appointed or elected to any other positions that would cause dual officer holder?
MR. DuBARD: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Go ahead with your short statement, sir.
MR. DuBARD: Thank you. Having been one of the original trustees at Coastal, I readily admit I knew very little about the government when I went on the Board and I think some of my fellow colleagues felt the same way. However, we have put together I think a wonderful Board down there. We have wonderful vision and leadership in our president. To answer one of the questions we have here, and nobody's mentioned it yet, one of the things we're doing at Coastal is our Outreach. We're teaching classes in North Myrtle Beach, Myrtle Beach, down in Waccamaw neck and in Georgetown, which is part of our mission. This is going to most probably help alleviate some of the landlock situations we have. Recently the Coastal Educational Foundation bought a twelve acres tract of land which was adjacent to our campus, and that's going to allow us some degree of expansion. But in the overall scheme of things, Coastal is going to grow whether we have the buildings for it or not because of the excellence in our programs and the vision of our leadership. We're not in the budget process and crisis that a lot of other universities are because we saw what was coming and we budgeted for the shortfalls, and fortunately, we've been able to get through it. But again now, the out of state students and our very fine marine biology, and we are the only one in South Carolina that has that, their program, that brings a lot of people outside of South Carolina into South Carolina. And our tourist related programs also in Myrtle Beach. We've got a lot of good things that we're doing to bring young people into our college and university.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any questions? Sen. Alexander?
SEN. ALEXANDER: Thank you. Certainly appreciate your service. Just two or three things in what you've said and in just looking over things, too. Now, your interest in Coastal Carolina, I noticed, I don't believe you're a graduate?
MR. DuBARD: No, sir. I was of Wofford College.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Right. Great school up there.
MR. DuBARD: I think so.
SEN. ALEXANDER: What generated your interest in Coastal Carolina?
MR. DuBARD: Kind of a long story, but I'll bring it down real shortly.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Thank you.
MR. DuBARD: I attended when Rick Hart, who is a sculpturist, when he was awarded and honorary degree. That was in 1993. I attended that ceremony and I ran across Jimmy Johnson and Kermit Clardy, who at that time was working for the university, and they asked me to run for the District Sixth seat, and that's how I got involved in it.
SEN. ALEXANDER: You mentioned out of state students. Do you know what percentage of your enrollment there is out of state students at Coastal?
MR. DuBARD: 34% now.
SEN. SHORT: What did you say?
MR. DuBARD: 34% now.
REP. HINES: Yes, sir. I would just like to make an observation and maybe ask a question. I think all of us know that, well maybe not all of us, you know, in the State of South Carolina, we have two tourist activities that takes place in Darlington, South Carolina at places for stock car racing was born and the Board has always been a big supporter of that, and that means so much to this entire state, you know. I think in recent years there have been some other places that's been buying to take away one of them race tracks, but it continued, the people continue to pour in from I'll say all over this nation. I think being here in the midlands, you can hardly find a motel that's open during those two activities and those that are open, I think the price of the motel is about almost double in some instances, so he's done a great -- I had an opportunity to meet with the Governor last week in a meeting and I said to him that, he thinks a lot of stock car racing, too so hopefully, we can continue to keep those two races there to buy so much financial support for the state.
SEN. SHORT: Mr. Chairman?
SEN. SHORT: Mr. Dubard, do you know what the average SAT score is for the present freshman class?
MR. DuBARD: 1047.
SEN. SHORT: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any other questions? Thank you, sir. Thank you very much. At large, Seat 13, another new member serving just over a year.
MR. SPIVEY: Not quite a year.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Not quite a year, okay. Eugene C. Spivey. Mr. Spivey, thank you, sir. The information given here today to be the truth, nothing but the truth, so help you?
MR. SPIVEY: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Do you have, developed any kind of illness that we need to know since we last screened you, sir, have you?
MR. SPIVEY: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: How about your personal or business conflicts that would cause any conflicts of interest?
MR. SPIVEY: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Okay. Have you been appointed or elected to any other position that you would be dual office holder?
MR. SPIVEY: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Thank you, sir.
MR. SPIVEY: Mr. Chairman and committee, I come as not having served quite a year, I think I went through this process in about as late as we could do it last year in April, I think. I was filling an unexpired term. I'm a long time Coastal supporter of both the alumni fund, the alumni booster, the booster club, senior club, and I'm a Coastal graduate. I've had a good first nine, ten months, whatever it is since I've been there, and I'm looking to be re-elected to the Board.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Thank you, sir. Any questions of Mr. Spivey?
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Go ahead, sir. Ask all the questions you like. Sen. Alexander.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Thank you. You're not serving now on the State Housing Authority?
MR. SPIVEY: No, sir. I resigned that --
SEN. ALEXANDER: Before you went --
MR. SPIVEY: Right, a couple of days after I got elected to this Board.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Thank you. That's all I have.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any other questions? Thank you, Gene.
MR. SPIVEY: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: The next we have at large, Seat 15, Mr. Daniel W. Moore, Sr. Mr. Moore, please raise your right hand. The information give here today will be the truth, nothing but the truth, so help you?
MR. MOORE: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Mr. Moore, do you have any illness we need to be made aware of?
MR. MOORE: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Have any business or personal life, does it have any conflicts of interest continuing to let you serve?
MR. MOORE: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: How about any other appointed or elected positions within the community that would cause a dual officer holder?
MR. MOORE: No, sir.
MR. MOORE: Rep. Phillips, distinguish members of the screening committee, thank you for this opportunity and taking your time to allow me to present my candidacy for another term on the Board of Trustees at Coastal. I've had the privilege of serving for the last three years, and the exciting things happening at Coastal, it would take all day to go into a lot of the things. My distinguished colleagues have brought out a number of those items. Some of the things that I'm most proud of in my tenure is chair of the development committee, which is our fund-raising arm, and we're moving very positively in that arena, especially in these physical times. As you heard my other colleagues mention, the state aid dropping and other economic constraints, we have been extremely physically responsible managing our finances. Dr. Salley Corner, who is our executive vice-president for finance, is a wizard, and she really squeezes the dollar. And we've been very fortunate to pre-anticipate some of these shortfalls. The growth of the university increased in SAT scores, increased in retention, all things are just exciting. And to throw football in with that coming up in the fall, my excitement just spills over in terms of wanting to serve continual. I grew up as a native in Horry County. My wife attended Coastal Carolina. I started my service with the university following my father as a member of the Higher Education Commission, served a term there and was fortunate to be elected to the Board of Trustees by this panel. I would be happy to take any of your questions.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any questions? Sen. Short?
SEN. SHORT: We seem to be just taking turns over here. Do you know what the male/female breakdown is at the school and also what percentage of minority students are?
MR. MOORE: I'm going to have to refer to my notes.
MR. MOORE: If I can find it. May I ask my panel back here?
SEN. SHORT: Certainly.
MR. MOORE: It's 58% female, 42% male.
SEN. SHORT: All right. And the minority population?
MR. MOORE: Minority population is about 16%, 17%.
SEN. SHORT: Have you had, do you have any kind of a program ongoing to increase the minority population? I know that most of the schools have struggle with it.
MR. MOORE: We have, and I don't know if you're aware of the cultural diversity programs that have been tremendously enhanced and programmatically made Coastal increase the awareness of the university in terms of multi-cultural activities on campus, and I think we've gone a long way. You may not have seen them addressed here in Columbia, but our local newspapers have raised the bar and awareness in terms of multi-cultural activities and events and sponsorships. And I think one of the leading thing, Dr. Enlin received reports last night from the, I can't recall the name of the organization, but it was to do with the his work for the university in raising multi-cultural awareness.
SEN. SHORT: Thank you.
MR. MOORE: Yes, sir.
REP. LITTLEJOHN: I noticed where several of the Board members were born out of the state, and I think that's great that you ended up in South Carolina for various reasons, the out of state kids coming in, the 34%, where do we draw the line on seeking out of state students? Because I think that's a big benefit to have kids coming in from out of state because it adds to the mix, but where do we draw the line on in state and out of state?
MR. MOORE: That's a very difficult and that's a very debatable question that you've raised. On the one hand, of course, the out of state students are really helping to fund the shortfalls in terms of increased tuition that they pay. We are currently, I'm involved with a public/private venture where we are building new dormitories or apartment complex just adjacent to campus, and this is also being a move to house our students who transfer from other areas that have to have bed at the university. But specifically to answer your question, that's a debatable question. Where do you draw the line? In particular, we need these revenues on the one hand, and on the other hand, we try to balance because, you know, part of our mission is we offer courses and course work and degree pursuits that enhance the region, enhance our region in the State of South Carolina. But I think we do a good job in regards to our marketing efforts. With that particular ratio, it is working well and is helping us to balance our quote budget at this particular time. But getting back to your original question, it's debatable as to whether you go 50/50, 40/60, what have you. I cannot give you a clear answer on that.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any other questions? Sen. Short?
SEN. SHORT: I've been up to visit the new facility at Winthrop that's the public/private --
MR. MOORE: This is very similar, yes, ma'am, and we are working with the developers. I've been appointed by the president, as I'm a developer myself, to kind of wear another hat and try to economically and efficiently come together in this public/private relationship.
SEN. SHORT: Winthrop did a beautiful job on the facility there and came in, I think, under budget and under time, which is kind of amazing.
MR. MOORE: Well, we're at those points as we speak, and we're leasing them up very rapidly and very excited because number one, there's no cost to the university itself, no liability for the university, and there may even be some residual dollars after all debt service on bond are paid. I'm very excited about this.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any other questions? Sen. Alexander?
SEN. ALEXANDER: I have a couple. I apologize. I should have asked this earlier. There was some comment made by one of the individuals about the other campuses or other teaching that you're doing off of campus throughout the counties.
MR. MOORE: We call it distance learning. The comment was made earlier with regards to our interaction with other universities.
SEN. ALEXANDER: I was thinking about your, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but where you're going to Georgetown and other locations to teach.
MR. MOORE: What we were finding is there are needs that our particular campus located somewhat in the heart away from the beach and geographically probably thirty miles north and south of the sites my colleague mentioned, so consequently, you're having persons moving into the area that would like to take benefit of college credit courses, so we are finding that the demand is asking us to provide these services in other locations.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Do you not feel that you're competing with the technical colleges in their mission in going to these other locations?
MR. MOORE: I misunderstood your question.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Do you feel that you're competing with the technical colleges?
MR. MOORE: No, sir. The particular courses that are asked for in these geographic locations are college credit courses, whereby you have people that work in the food service industry or hospitality industry, and we're working with those individuals that want to finish a degree that are in these other locations. The tech center has their main campus right next to our campus, so consequently, what we see is we're serving a need.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Mentioning that y'all have campuses back-to-back, is there anything that y'all do that y'all cooperate on building-wise, anything that the technical and Coastal Carolina do together?
MR. MOORE: We do have some interactive programs. I know our nursing program, we train the basic courses and Georgetown Tech provides the remainder. We put up the core courses for nursing. I know that program in particular, and I think some of the engineering or pre-engineering course work, so there is a lot of reciprocity in there.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Do you share a library together by chance?
MR. MOORE: Yes, sir.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Congratulations.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any other questions? No other questions, thank you, sir.
MR. MOORE: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: That concludes Coastal Carolina. What is the pleasure of the Committee as there are all seats at large?
SEN. SHORT: Favorable.
REP. HINES: Second.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Second by Rep. Hines, a motion by Sen. Short that we approve all the candidates. At this time, I declare all of the screening eligible and on the 3/6/03, which is March the 6th, next Thursday at 12:00, you may seek support for your various seats. You may stay if you like. If not, you may go. Our next screening process will take on South Carolina State University and First District, Seat 1, is Mr. Arnold Collins and Mr. Collins, are you Mr. Collins?
MR. COLLINS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: We had you down unable to attend.
MR. COLLINS: I worked it out.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Oh, you made it.
MR. COLLINS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Oh, okay. Well, good. Please raise your right hand, Mr. Collins. The information given here today will be the truth, so help you God?
MR. COLLINS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Mr. Collins, do you have any illness that we need to be made aware of?
MR. COLLINS: No, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Sir, do you hold any other positions, elected or appointed, in your community that has dual officer?
MR. COLLINS: None that constitutes dual officer.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: And do you have any job relation or professional contacts that would cause any conflicts of interest?
MR. COLLINS: None, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Go ahead, sir. Go ahead with your short statement.
MR. COLLINS: My name is Arnold Collins. Mr. Chairman, thank you and members of the committee for allowing me this opportunity to serve on the Board of the South Carolina State University. As you know, I've served as past chairman and currently I serve as the finance chairman of the university. It's been, I had the privilege of serving originally in 1983, having been appointed by the Governor at that time and came back on the Board -- and served from '83 to '89. Then I came back somewhere around '95, I think it was. So I have an extensive civic life. I like to serve. I like to help young people. My children both went to South Carolina State. My son's a graduate. I'm very proud of what he's doing. I'm just happy to serve and I'll be glad to answer any questions that you may have.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any questions from any committee members of Mr. Collins? Sen. Short?
SEN. SHORT: I know you're in the process of seeking a permanent president at this time. How is that process going and you've had several over the last few years. Could you address that as to why you think you've had so much turnover and what the Board is doing to try to overcome those kinds of things?
MR. COLLINS: Senator, by the process now, let me answer your first part. The process now, we're being very thorough. As you know, we've got six candidates and we just recently, you may not know, just recently opened the process again for ten days. We're working with the Budget and Control Board. We need to be very, very thorough this time around. To answer your other question, it's been unfortunate that we've had the turnover we've had. I serve as finance chair, and I'm working very closely with our Board to get us to change our focus. What I mean by that is, our teachers teach well, students do well, our athletes are great, the financial management, not mismanagement, that would be financial management has been our problem. And I think historically the academicians who are present just perhaps had conflict. I'm speaking from my standpoint. Just had, they're not as strong in handling six to a hundred million dollar budget and collectively, we have a hundred million dollar budget, and that's been our problem. So I'm working with our Board now. My purpose in looking for the next president is a 60/40 combination, if you will, a sixty percent financial person and a forty percent academicians. And I think all the people are wonderful, but I think they're just, I think we need a stronger financial management, and that's what we're putting our emphasis on now.
SEN. SHORT: Thank you.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Did I understand you to say that you chair the finance committee now?
MR. COLLINS: Yes, sir.
SEN. ALEXANDER: And how long have you been chairman of the finance committee?
MR. COLLINS: A year, year and a half, maybe.
SEN. ALEXANDER: So prior to that?
MR. COLLINS: I was chairman of the Board.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Of the Board. And your financial situation there, now how would you describe that?
MR. COLLINS: The financial situation is challenged, as all schools. We try to grow our enrollment. There's a minimum. There's a certain level by which you cannot exceed in raising tuition and continue to grow and grow, so that's a challenge. You know about the financial cutbacks in all the budgets the schools are facing. So we've got some challenges, but I subscribe to the theory that when the tide is low, it also creates opportunities, and we're hitting everything head-on. We just announced a fifteen day furlough. You may have heard. This Board is very pro-active. We're watching the numbers very closely, and we're just looking at the opportunities as challenges. We're going to cut back the fat where it exists, and we're just going to get lean and mean and then grow again.
REP. HINES: I would like for you, if you would, to tell us about your student enrollment in regards to maybe the quality of students you're getting. I know at one time, I'm a graduate of South Carolina State, and I can recall those years we was busting out of the seams with enrollment from out of state and in state. Can you address that now so far as student enrollment, quality of the students and the like?
MR. COLLINS: Well, I would imagine that the competition is a lot greater now than when you were in school a few years ago, so we're dealing with competition. Quality, our quality is good. We have a number of students who achieve 1,100 on the SAT. We have, as you know, the total person is just more than just the academic. We create an image at South Carolina State. We bring students who are first in the family to come to our school. We give them tremendous opportunities. They go on to major universities to get their masters and PhD. We've got an outstanding grad. As you know, we have a number of generals in the military. We just have some, from military to athletic, to academics, we have an outstanding alumni. We are very fortunate to have former Chief Justice Finney serving. We're very proud of a number of people, so we've created an image at South Carolina State. Our SAT scores are increasing. And again, the quality of our students, scholastically, is increasing as well. I hope I answered the question.
REP. HINES: I'm just so proud to hear that excellent report.
MR. COLLINS: Oh yes, and I think I want to draw your attention to some of the previous reports on performance based funding. South Carolina State did very, very well. In the performance based funding, you are challenged and you're graded on a number of issues, but we did well for the school, for the report card on performance based funding, so we're increasing the quality of our students, the number of our students, and we have not forgotten our mission. That's to serve the, the least of those, serve a lot of the first in the family.
REP. HINES: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any other questions? Thank you, sir.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Mr. Edward Polite was a candidate for this position and he has withdrawn. That leaves Mr. Collins unopposed. He withdrew February 21, 2003, by letter.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Mr. Chairman, is that, what is the law on that? Are we silent to that if someone withdraws?
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: If the candidate, who is the incumbent, withdraws.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Okay. Only if it's the incumbent.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: The incumbent, not a --
SEN. ALEXANDER: Not a challenger.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Not a challenger.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Okay. I just couldn't remember. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: At this time, we'll hear from the Second District, Seat 2, Rev. Samuel B. Glover. Raise your right hand, sir. The information given here today will be the truth, nothing but the truth?
REV. GLOVER: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Do you have any illnesses the Committee needs to be made aware of?
REV. GLOVER: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Sir, do you hold any other positions in the community that would constitute dual officer holder?
REV. GLOVER: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Does your background and professional or business, does it constitute any kind of conflict of interest by serving on the Board?
REV. GLOVER: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Sir, go ahead with a short statement.
REV. GLOVER: Mr. Chairman, other distinguished guests, certainly I appreciate the opportunity to be here. I am a graduate of South Carolina State University twice. I am a retired Colonel of the South Carolina National Guard. I have three kids, twenty years worth of business experience. I presently serve as the secretary of the Board. This is my, will be my second term on the Board if elected to that, to the Board. I also served as the chairman of the facilities and the public safety committee on the Board. And I echo everything Mr. Collins said. We certainly have our challenges from a funding standpoint, as all of you know what our situation there is. I guess one of our greatest challenges from a funding standpoint is educating our constituents that there is a requirement for funding beyond what we get from the state, and that is that we've got to continue to go after private funding to the maximum extent possible, and that's certainly one of the areas that we have been focusing on of lately, and we will certainly continue to do that. We're certainly happy that enrollment is one of upturn. If you've had an opportunity to read the newspapers lately, that's one of the things we're happy about and retention is certainly there along with that. In addition to that, I have some sinus problems here obviously, but we are certainly in the process of looking for a new president, and we're certainly looking and hoping to get someone with the right kind of vision, the kind of vision that will take us to the next level that obviously we want to get to. From a facility standpoint, we have some problems there because our facilities are in much need of repair, and probably some of you are aware of that. We're working that challenge, and it's a very difficult challenge because of our funding situation. And I'll just back up to enrollment. We are certainly paying attention to the larger universities as they say they want to focus more on research and increase their enrollment requirements. Well, we were just in a Board meeting a few days ago and, you know, one of the things I mentioned to our enrollment individuals was there was an opportunity for us right there if the Clemsons and the Universities of South Carolina, Medical University plan to increase their standards to such a high level that there certainly will be opportunities for us to go after those students and most of them will certainly be in state students, so we certainly will invite that challenge and look forward to potentially getting some of those students and not have them possibly go out of state to other universities.
REP. LITTLEJOHN: Mr. Glover, Sen. Short referred to the Board of Regencies to govern the education of South Carolina. How do you feel about a Board of Regencies overseeing the educational goals in South Carolina?
REV. GLOVER: Well, it would certainly be one that I would like to have an opportunity to study and take a look at. I am aware that, I guess most other states probably have, not probably, but do have such a board in charge, but you know, here again, each individual, each university certainly have their own, certainly have their own unique situations and would have the need to have their particular needs met and as much attention paid to them as possible.
REP. LITTLEJOHN: I realize that, but don't you think we need a board carrying us to all, there are some overall objectives that we need to accomplish in the educational field for South Carolina. Would you think a board could certainly be positive in that area?
REV. GLOVER: Well, I, you know, I certainly think that there are both positives and negatives. You know, I would just like an opportunity to look at it and see, you know, what the encompass in doing that.
REP. LITTLEJOHN: We have all kind of duplications in South Carolina costing tax payers tremendous amounts of money. If that could be eliminated, do you feel like it's possible?
REV. GLOVER: I certainly would agree that there are certainly duplications in efforts in a lot of arenas, yes.
SEN. SHORT: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You mentioned that you chair the facilities committee now. A couple of years ago, you had a very serious problems with one of the dorms at South Carolina State. What have you done to address that, and what you do you continue to do to try and deal with that, especially since your student population has increased?
REV. GLOVER: Well, you're referring to south campus, and we have since sold that facility. It was an off campus situation, a motel that the university bought some time ago. But certainly our focus now is, number one, our safety concern with the facilities that we have now and maximizing every dollar that we can possibly get to go into the areas to make certain that we have, number one, safe facilities, of course, and certainly the best facilities that we can provide with the kind of funding that we have available to make that happen.
SEN. SHORT: Have you looked at all at the public/private partnerships that, as Coastal is doing now, is just completed that?
REV. GLOVER: Yes, ma'am. We are in the process of looking at that as we speak with the hopes that we would have been further along than we are, but it's a slow process, particularly having to look at all of our funding situations to determine at what point we can get that, but we are certainly looking at that, yes, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any others? Sen. Alexander?
SEN. ALEXANDER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Kind of following up on Rep. Littlejohn there and understanding that taking SC State out of this mix of discussion, does your Board ever, in talking about I guess state funding, has the issue of the number of institutions that are funded by the state come up as a matter of how it would be a way to generate additional funds that could come to SC State if that was reduced, the number that the state was having to support? In other words, we've got thirty-some-odd institutions, I think, that we fund in South Carolina, thirty-three institutions of higher learning, giving SC State is certainly a major part of our mission, as USC and the Medical University and Clemson and Coastal Carolina now, have y'all given any discussion as a way that might help the financial situation with the State of South Carolina to provide y'all additional money if we didn't have as many institutions of higher learning in South Carolina? Has that ever come up in any of your --
REV. GLOVER: No, sir. We haven't had such a discussion. I guess I can say that I would hope that if there were not the number of state supported institutions then it would thereby possibly increase our funding.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Do you know a ballpark of the amount of resident students versus commuting students you have at SC State?
REV. GLOVER: Ballpark, I would probably say 80%, 85%, most of our students are resident students.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Thank you.
REV. GLOVER: Yes, sir.
REP. HINES: There are those in our state, state minorities have said that South Carolina State had lost so much more comparing to any of the neighboring states like North Carolina and Georgia as it related to the land grant and mission that South Carolina State at one time truly had when professors from South Carolina State University were in collaboration with professors from Clemson and collected scholar reports as it relates to research. It said that they lost so much of admission and those are going as far as to say at one point in time that it more or less was going towards like a military school and that we've had so many people that graduate from that school are so successful and achieving high rank in the military with the Admin of Justice Finney being there now, you may have already spoken of this, you said the trend might be changing. That we might can strengthen some of those traditional programs that we had in the past.
REV. GLOVER: Well, you know, I certainly agree whole heartedly with you. You know, I envision that as an opportunity, not only for us to have collaborative efforts with them but also to save some potential funding in some areas. We just got finished announcing a large grant with the Medical University of Charleston and from my understanding, several things should be happening right around the corner with the University of South Carolina. My wife is a professor at the University of South Carolina, and she certainly, one of the things that I know of is the collaborative efforts that's going on between school public health and the 1890 program as we speak in trying to do some of those things that you were talking about, because there are tremendous amounts, there are a tremendous amount of funds available out there, and a lot of them, the University and South Carolina State just can't handle by themselves, and as a result of connecting with some of the larger universities, i.e. Clemson or the Medical University or the University of South Carolina, will allow us to be involved in some of those opportunities for funding and also allow out students the opportunity for some research in some of those areas and to further their expertise by going to graduate school and doctoral programs in those particular areas.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any other questions? Mr. Glover, can you tell me the percentage of, or would you know the percentage of students who graduated in four years at South Carolina State?
REV. GLOVER: I'm not 100% sure on that. I think we're somewhere in the 70%. The last figure I saw, which was probably two years ago, and that's just, you know, a guess at that.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Okay. Any other questions? Thank you, sir.
REV. GLOVER: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Mr. Joseph C. Sanders, Second District, Seat 2, Mr. Joe C. Sanders. Mr. Sanders, please raise your right hand. The information you give here today will be the truth, nothing but the truth, so help you?
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Sir, do you have any illness that the Committee needs to be made aware of?
MR. SANDERS: Nothing.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any professional or business that would constitute a dual office holder should you be elected to this Board?
MR. SANDERS: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Excuse me, a conflict of interest?
MR. SANDERS: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Do you have any appointment or elected that would cause dual office holder?
MR. SANDERS: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: You may go ahead, sir, with a short statement.
MR. SANDERS: My name is Joseph Sanders, and I want to thank the Chairman and this committee for having me to speak to this Board of Trustee issue. Having twenty-seven years of business to this effort where I created and grew several companies, and I think we need management and a business approach also to this Board, and I think that's what I can give to it. And I also bring some resources. I created the Joe Sanders Scholarship Fund in the mid '80s to South Carolina State College, my alma-mater and also did the same thing for Benedict, Allen, Fulmer, and Claflin. I funded each of those with $100,000 bond on each. So I've always known that when you could give back something and that these finances were necessary from alums and people who were friends of the university. I also established a Dean Vincent Scholarship Fund in the mid '80s, who was the former dean of men when I was there and was so helpful to me, so we did something in his honor. And I did the Presidential Endowment Fund in the late '90s. A sort of funds to, there were a lot of things that the President could not use the operating fund for, and I thought it would be a good idea to have a little special fund that he could tap into to do certain things that he couldn't do out of that, so I raised $111,000 for that effort. If elected, and even if not elected, I would like to work with the Board. There are a group that I want to form. We're going to call it the Friends of South Carolina State University and this group will be made up of the businessmen from Orangeburg, and I don't think we've tapped into those resources. Somebody mentioned that we have about a hundred million dollar budget there and we spend it with them, and we don't get much back from them, so I'm going to try to cultivate that effort. They may be friendly to college in this downturn. And to try to raise some more money. There is also a local company that I'm going to cultivate a relationship with to come and take care, donate their services to take care of our grounds. The, we're so short of lawnmowers and stuff like that, that the campus just needs a lot of help, and they have this group there that we might be able to get them to donate their services to do that whole project, and that will save us some money to put into a lot of places. And I think there were some partnerships will be able to create some incubation to bring us some more revenues and some expertise to our campus. And those are some of the things that I have in mind for our university.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any Committee members have a question?
SEN. SHORT: Mr. Chairman?
SEN. SHORT: Sounds like you've given a lot of consideration to financial concerns at South Carolina State. I wonder if you have looked at any of the programs or if you are aware of any changes that need to be made or if that end of the academic program is something that you've looked at as well?
MR. SANDERS: Well, what I've looked at is just some management things that we could get a lot more if we manage it a little better.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any other questions? Rep. Littlejohn.
REP. LITTLEJOHN: I see where you went from real estate to a rancher. What makes you qualified to be a rancher?
MR. SANDERS: That's something else, isn't it?
REP. LITTLEJOHN: What do you raise?
MR. SANDERS: Black Angus.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any other questions?
REP. HINES: That's made, it's kind of unique for us to be in the ranching business.
MR. SANDERS: Say it again now?
REP. HINES: Littlejohn mentioned that's kind of unique for us to be in the ranching business.
MR. SANDERS: Us farmers?
REP. HINES: Well, we used to be called a colored.
MR. SANDERS: Yeah, I could tell you a little story about that.
REP. LITTLEJOHN: You raise any white face?
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any other questions? Well, I want to commend you. If you want to make some contributions up towards our way, you seem like you're a good fund raiser. I want to commend you for your efforts which you've already done at the South Carolina State University. Thank you, sir.
MR. SANDERS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Fourth District, Seat 4, Dr. John H. Corbitt. Dr. Corbitt, the information given here today will be the truth, nothing but the truth, so help you God?
DR. CORBITT: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Dr. Corbitt, do you have any illness that the Committee needs to be aware of that you might make us aware of? Do you have any illnesses?
DR. CORBITT: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: How about personal or business conflicts that would cause a conflict of interest to serve?
DR. CORBITT: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: How about any kind of appointments or elections through your community that would cause a dual office holder?
DR. CORBITT: No, sir.
DR. CORBITT: Honorable Chairman, it's good to be here, and I'm excited about serving on the Board of Trustees, at my alma-mater, South Carolina State University. I've served for two years. I've served with a lot of enthusiasm. I served on two of the committees of the Board; the academic affairs and the student services committee. I'm a former college professor, so that's sort of down my line. And we worked with the academic affairs committee to kind of trim some things. We have sixty majors now. We think we can get by with less than that, so we're working on that with the institution. On the student service committee which I serve on, we gave the staff our committee did, some ideas about recruitment, and they accepted those ideas and our enrollment increased this past year, so I think we're doing some good things there. I'm from Greenville. We're very proud of the doctoral program as part of the University in Greenville and the doctoral program is doing quite well. We recommend to the university that they form an advisory committee and they've done that for the doctoral program, so that's going quite well, including the program that's in Greenville. As a trustee, I helped to set the profile for the new president, and I want to be there to help see that through, so I'm excited about what we're doing and look forward to hopefully serving another four years.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any Committee, Sen. Alexander.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I see you've been on since 2001; is that right?
DR. CORBITT: Yes, sir.
SEN. ALEXANDER: What has been the biggest, once you went on the Board, what has been the biggest surprise to you during your two years or two and a half years?
DR. CORBITT: Well, seeing the problems of the university. We have a serious problem with our property, the buildings are really rundown. That was kind of shocking to see that. The buildings are really, and I think we're really using the funds that we have with the best we can, but the buildings, a lot of the buildings are rundown, so that was certainly a surprise to me. That we don't have the resource to keep up the buildings on the campus.
SEN. ALEXANDER: You were a graduate there?
DR. CORBITT: Yes, sir.
SEN. ALEXANDER: How does the campus compare now to then, as far as the size and the number of buildings in the physical plant, just as a --
DR. CORBITT: The school has grown greatly. When I was there, we had about 1,200 students and now it's almost 5,000, so it's grown greatly. But academics has grown also greatly, and we have a good teaching program there. Plenty of PhDs, good teaching. We just need some more funds to help with the buildings and so forth. The other institutions, comparative institutions, historical back state schools like North Carolina Central, for example, came and got our Dean of Business and paid about twice the money that she was getting there, that kind of thing, competing with other schools like that.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any other questions?
SEN. SHORT: Mr. Chairman?
SEN. SHORT: Since the facilities have been a problem at South Carolina State, has there been a significant change in your maintenance program for the facility?
DR. CORBITT: Yes. That's one of our big priorities now. We have seven committees on trust, I serve on two, but I also attend the meetings of the other five committees and one of those is the facility committee. We've put our extra resources to get that cleaned up. That's one of our priorities to make sure that the rooms are back on line and that we try to take care of all the environmental problems that we have at the university.
SEN. SHORT: Do you know how the lottery money that South Carolina State University received was used?
DR. CORBITT: Yes. It's, I think there was some money used, that we can use in general, a general funds, for scholarship programs. It's been used as directed by the Legislature.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any other questions? Thank you, sir. At this time, I'm going to ask Mr. James H. Owens, Fourth District, Seat 4. Mr. Owens, please raise your right hand. The information given here today to be the truth, nothing but the truth, so help you God?
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Mr. Owens, is there, do you have any illness the Committee needs to be made aware of that would keep you from serving your full capacity?
MR. OWENS: None that I'm aware of.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Do you have a professional or business background that might cause any conflicts of interest if you were to be elected?
MR. OWENS: None.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Do you hold any appointed or elected positions in your community that you need to resign that would cause a conflict of interest?
MR. OWENS: Good morning to the Chairman and distinguished panel. I'm just honored to have the opportunity to come before you today and seek this position. My heart runs deep for the university. I am a graduate. Both of my parents graduated from the university. Both of my brothers graduated from the university. My wife is a graduate, so I believe guarding the blue. I'm here today because my alumni, I'm simply answering a call and rallying to her call. My candidacy is really simply, I believe that we have to get about the business of the Board members of providing leadership and a vision for the university. I believe that fund raising, and I heard it this morning and I guess it's been confirmed, fund raising is the critical issue at South Carolina State University, and to me it's an area where I believe I provide some expertise. I spent the past few years as chairman of the upstate United Negro College Fund drive in Greenville, Anderson and Spartanburg, where we've raised over $100,000 each year. And we've done this on a part-time basis. I have found that in the business community, there are corporations who are willing to partner with a university to provide financial assistance. If we're able to raise the finances and revenue at the university, we're able to address a whole lot of problems. We can fix the dorms. We can provide a higher quality of education. And quite frankly, we can go in and enhance a current program that we offer in our curriculum. We can go in and provide a better quality of education, and then go beyond that and expand. I would like to see the university grow to a point that we begin to offer a curriculum that would become a niche or unique to the university itself that our kids can find only at our university. And by doing this, we will be able to attract the higher quality student. Then the kids that make 1,200, 1,300, 1,400 are going to come to our university because we have so much exciting for them to offer. But again, I think the basis is, we have to be able to fund raise. I think we have to tap into our alumni and tap into the corporate world. Our alumni need to be excited again. They need to be rejuvenated and as a Board member, it would be my desire and my intent to travel this state and be involved in that process in talking to the alumni and getting them excited about contributing to our university and making it strong again.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Questions? Rep. Littlejohn.
REP. LITTLEJOHN: Mr. Owens, according to your statement and what you gave us, your family's pretty well grounded at SC State; is that correct?
MR. OWENS: Yes, sir.
REP. LITTLEJOHN: In 1979, when you graduated, you described the school as the most beautiful landscaped campus in America. Is that true today?
MR. OWENS: Unfortunately, I don't think it compares today, no.
REP. LITTLEJOHN: Would you like to comment on the last twenty-five years?
MR. OWENS: As far as the campus? Of course, when I was there in the mid '70s, I thought it was just the most campus in the world. It attracted me when I went there on a visit, and it was just such a beautifully landscaped campus. The curriculum was strong. Our athletics was very strong. I spent four of the best years of my life there.
REP. LITTLEJOHN: Are you saying as a teenager you saw other things then instead of the school?
MR. OWENS: I saw what?
REP. LITTLEJOHN: Other things instead of the school?
MR. OWENS: I saw it all. I think the biggest thing that attracted me there was that the ratio of girls to guys was about nine to one. I figured I had a pretty good chance there.
REP. LITTLEJOHN: On a more serious note, you know, the school has definitely gone down. What do you contribute to that?
MR. OWENS: I don't know if I could put my finger on any one thing, but I do know that fund raising should be a big part of the university. To me, I find it almost embarrassing that we are having trouble raising money, to be honest with you. I think it's just leadership. I think if we get good leadership with a good vision, that can provide a short term, as well as a long term, vision for the school, I think we have to break it down to a point that we know how that school looks, feel, smell, taste, five, ten, twenty years from now, and that begins with a good vision and a good plan. We've had some problems with turnover. I think Mr. Powers addressed that earlier. I think we've tended to trend more toward the academic type, and it's a business. And we need someone who is going to run the school with a business background to be able to propel it to the next level. And I think our Board should be reflective also. I think our Board -- I have a business background. I'm a State Farm agent in Greenville. I love marketing. That's what I do, and I would love to apply my skills to this Board and be able to attract revenue for the university.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any other questions?
REP. HINES: I believe so.
REP. HINES: That's quite interesting your comments you made about your former alma-mater. Do you foresee that a reversal might be made to inspire those programs that was once there, initiated again? I'm sure you know about the programs I'm talking about. We've lost primarily all of them, I believe. When I went to school there, we had a nursery. We had a beef cattle farm, diary cattle farm, swine farm, you know, the pros are real strong. I said we had the best in collaboration with Clemson, the best in writing scholar reports. How much do you see us regaining some of that? I believe you may have alluded to some of that in your comments.
MR. OWENS: I can assure you that if I'm elected to this Board a lot of good things will happen. I believe that or I wouldn't be here. I think we have to get creative, we have to get innovative, we have to think outside the box. We have to start asking the questions what if and why not. When we're able to do that, then we're going to be able to excite people, and I believe that the university will one day again be a beacon of light in the State of South Carolina. I do believe that.
SEN. SHORT: Mr. Chairman. I don't know whether sixty majors is a lot for a fairly small school or not, but it kind of sounds like a lot. Have you looked at all at the academic program and which majors are the most successful and whether or not there need to be significant changes in the academic program?
MR. OWENS: At this point, I have not looked specifically, no. I do know that we have a very good business department and some other departments that I came through at the time that I came through the university. I think, again, when you raise revenue, you are able to go in and look at all of your program, and if they need infusion, you've got the dollars to do that. And I've talked to some folks who have partly or are involved with other universities. One thing I would like to do as a Board member is to bring in a blue ribbon panel of professionals who have access to other universities. There's no need of reinventing the wheel. There are a lot of universities out there that do a lot of great things, and we just have to go out and tap into that and bring revenue into the university so we can expand those programs, and then have more than sixty, maybe a hundred and sixty.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Thank you. First, let me clarify. Were you and Rep. Hines, were y'all classmates at SC State?
MR. OWENS: I'll let him answer.
REP. HINES: I think his father may have been my classmate.
SEN. ALEXANDER: I was giving him the comment. I was also wanting to know, your degree was in political science?
SEN. ALEXANDER: And you're a State Farm agent?
SEN. ALEXANDER: How did you make that move over from that standpoint.
MR. OWENS: Interesting. I interviewed with State Farm when I was in college, and these are the kind of programs that I would like to try to bring back to the university. At that time, we had a lot of corporations that came in and worked with students. I was a part of an internship program, so I interned with State Farm in college and then when I graduated, I've been with them for twenty-three years now.
SEN. ALEXANDER: But the other final question is that you may have heard my question earlier about if you take off the table SC State and research institutions, do you have a vision or thought as to the number of institutions that we fund in South Carolina and the amount of money that's going into higher education versus a return, I guess we're getting for those dollars in those other institutions?
MR. OWENS: I'm not sure if I understand your question.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Well, in other words, we have thirty-three institutions that we're funding. If we say we definitely need to keep SC State and the research institutions and several other ones, do you think that is a way that we can continue to increase the funding to SC State is by decreasing the number of institutions that we as a state fund at higher money?
MR. OWENS: My personal belief is, and I don't know if I'm going to answer your question with this, but I would like to see the university move to the point that the monies that come from the Legislature are not what makes or breaks us. I think once we attract the dollars at the university, we make ourselves independent and strong.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any other Committee members? Thank you, sir. That concludes South Carolina State University. At this time, a motion that we screen the candidates qualified.
REP. HINES: So moved.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Motion by Rep. Hines.
SEN. SHORT: Second.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Second by Short and Alexander. We declare South Carolina State University, Seat 1, Seat 2, District One, District Two, District Four candidates are screened and eligible and may seek support on March the 6th at 12:00. That's next Thursday week. You may stay if you like. If not, you're welcome to go. At this time, we will -- anybody need to take a short break? We'll proceed on then. University of South Carolina. We'll go to the Fourth Circuit. This is the seat vacated by the death of Board Trustee Dupree Miller. Mr. Miller served well as a Board member in that District, and at that time, we would like to hear from the Governor's appointee, Mr. John Long. Mr. Long, raise your right hand, sir. The information given here today will be the truth, nothing but the truth, so help you God?
MR. LONG: Yes.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Mr. Long, do you have any illnesses that the Committee needs to be made aware of?
MR. LONG: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Professional or business conflicts that would cause or constitute a conflict of interest to serve?
MR. LONG: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Okay. Do you hold any elected or appointed positions in your neighboring community that would cause a dual officer holder?
MR. LONG: No, sir.
MR. LONG: Okay. Thank you, Chairman Phillips, committee members, members of the committee. It is an honor and a privilege to come before you today to state my desire to continue to serve on the University of South Carolina Board of Trustees. My name, of course, is John Long. I live in Cheraw, South Carolina and am currently president of Century Bank & Trust there in Cheraw. I'm a 1976 graduate of the university. My wife Brawn, of twenty-five years is also a graduate of the university, and my daughter Heather is currently a sophomore there. This past August I was asked to fill the unexpired term of the Late Dupree Miller. At the time of my appointment, I was serving on the South Carolina Housing Finance and Development Board. After approximately three months on the Board, I was encouraged by several members to seek the permanent position in 2003. Over the past six months, I have worked hard to learn as much as possible . I've been working with the Board in my duties on various committees. I currently serve on the fiscal policy committee, the health affairs committee, and the student liaison committee. It has been an honor and a privilege to serve on the Board, but also a great responsibility. If elected, I promise to continue to work hard and take the time to make informed decisions during this important time of the life of the university. I would greatly appreciate your favorable consideration in this matter. Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any questions? Rep. Littlejohn.
REP. LITTLEJOHN: Mr. Long, we have thirty or forty professors at USC that aren't teaching any classes at all. How do you feel about that?
MR. LONG: Well, Rep. Littlejohn, having been just on the Board, certainly I'm trying to learn as much as I can, and this time that I've been there, that's what I've been trying to do. Let me just say that I think that in the economic climate that we're in right now, I think every area of the university needs to be looked at to make sure we're maximizing the resources that we have. And I think that if that is out of line with what other universities of comparable size and admissions of ours are doing or not doing, then that's something we certainly need to look at.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Thank you. I understand you're just on the Board. How many campuses does USC have?
MR. LONG: I'm not exactly, I want to say -- I know we have Lancaster.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Well, let me just ask you this.
MR. LONG: Okay.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Has there been any discussion among the Board, and you talked about the difficult financial times, is there any discussion among the Board officially, unofficially, whatever, about looking at the number of campuses you have and the number of students that are being served by these universities, if that is getting the best of the dollars you have in higher education at USC?
MR. LONG: In the meetings that I've been, there's been no official discussion as far as our satellite campuses, if that's the correct word to call them. I've been hushed a couple of times when I've said satellite or whatever, so I'm not sure what the appropriate word is, but I do believe, and I raised an issue in the one of the meetings, as we look towards becoming a research university as it's being proposed, I think that we've got to look at each and every campus, because I think one of the things you mentioned a while ago is the mission of our tech schools. Where are we conflicting with our tech schools. Now, y'all have been in politics a lot longer than I have, not in politics, but --
SEN. SHORT: If you're running for this, you're definitely in politics.
MR. LONG: Closing down or starting to talk about somebody's campus in their District, you know, that becomes a difficult situation, but I do believe that that's something that we need to look at and make sure that we're maximizing our dollars, and the universities and the satellite campuses that are out there and really performing need to be encouraged. And if there's some, as I said again, that are competing with our tech schools, we need to look at that, too. And I think we need to make some tough decisions as we move forward and where we're headed with the, with the, or if we head in that direction with the research university.
SEN. SHORT: I was, frankly, a little distressed to see the newspaper article that John Palms, as good as he was, is continuing to pursue the $200,000 salary while we're also paying somebody else over $200,000. If you could, address that briefly and then also address the request for the proposal that the university has in conjunction with the other two research universities.
MR. LONG: Well, when I came on the Board, I think it may have actually been my second board meeting, the discussion came up about approving this agreement or whatever. I voted in favor of it. Quite frankly, the reason I did was that I didn't feel I had enough information to have an argument against what they were trying to do. I do think that there was some deep discussions about, if deep is the right word, there were some strong discussions about what the agreement should be, and I think when you leave a board meeting and you vote for something, it should be a consensus, and I think that's where it finally got to. But I do believe it's right Senator, I mean do I believe it would be right to say yeah, I think it was absolutely wrong. They shouldn't have done it. Quite frankly, I don't know the history of why they got there and why they voted on that. I certainly think, just like paying football coaches, I mean, you need to look at what's in the best long term interest, not only for the university but for the tax payers, and how does it look when you're in this type situation and you put out that kind of money, and then you turn around and talk about the cuts you're having to make on the other side. Certainly it doesn't look good. But now, the history of it, I really can't answer.
SEN. SHORT: The difference, since you referenced football coaches, as bad as it is that Carolina has paid so many football coaches over and over again, they weren't at least buying out contracts when they did that to actually have somebody leave, and in this case, they weren't doing that at all. I mean it sort of, I mean they were planning to stay away for some period of time. I don't know. I found it very strange, disheartening.
MR. LONG: Like I said, I'm not trying to run from answering your question, but I'm not sure exactly how they, like I said, I think it was like my first or second meeting when we voted, and I'm not sure of the history of why they got to that point. I do know that by the tone of the meeting there was a lot of discussion prior to that about whether they should or shouldn't pay that money.
SEN. SHORT: What about the proposal for the three research universities to be under a different mission, even though I'm not sure exactly what it's titled?
MR. LONG: I think that we should explore every avenue of our universities to make sure that we are collaborating to work together instead of overlapping so much as we do. I will compliment Dr. Sorenson and the other presidents of the other university of at least coming together and trying to discuss some way to better use the resources that we have. I don't think anything that's put on the table should just be shot down automatically. Now where we end up with this, I'm not sure. I think that there's a lot of excitement of Dr. Sorenson in town down here. You know, I think he just signed an agreement with Midlands Tech to collaborate on a specific program. I can't remember exactly what it was. That was in the paper the other day, too. And then working with the City to try to heal some of the riff that's been there over the last couple of years, and I think just to bring this out, bring it up, bring it on the table to offer something to discuss along with having one board of regions, you know. I don't know where this will end up, and I think it's a great opportunity and something that we should at least consider and look at.
SEN. SHORT: Do you have any concern that the university is becoming ileitis to the point that most South Carolina students are not going to be eligible for enrollment there?
MR. LONG: If I'm, I would hope not because, you know, that is one of the things that as far as our SAT scores, I think there are possibly two camps. You know, my belief is we shouldn't compete or we shouldn't set our standards because of what another university does. Quite frankly, if we were where we're now, I probably wouldn't be a graduate of the University of South Carolina, so I think that because of my feelings about the university, that we should continue to serve the majority of South Carolinians that want an education that can qualify, and I don't think we ought to lower our standards, but I think we should look at smart growth and not just raise our SAT requirements just because another university has a higher standard than we do. I think that's one of our strengths, quite frankly.
SEN. SHORT: Thank you.
REP. LITTLEJOHN: Mr. Long, in 1996, the Legislature ordered the CAT to come to an answer on parity in funding our schools in South Carolina. We have yet to do that because of politics, because of lobbyists, and alumni interfering with CHE doing their job. Dr. Sorenson has certainly said he favors parity. When do we reach parity in South Carolina? We have schools that are doing a tremendous job and not getting funded. You have your other schools that are being over funded and USC is certainly one of those. You have other schools under funded, yet doing a better job. An example is all our tech schools. They're doing a tremendous job, yet they're under funded and doing a much better job than the academic schools. Where do we, how to we get to parity in South Carolina in funding our schools?
MR. LONG: Well, I wish I could truthfully answer it. I do believe that what we've got to do is set out a separate mission for each one of our universities and make sure that they are funding, funded to meet what their mission, so-to-speak, is in the state.
REP. LITTLEJOHN: Well, the mission resource requirements are in part of the performance funding that was set up in 1996, but those things have not yet been met. I just wondered if -- and with all the money we had in the '90s and we have no money now, when are we ever going to have parity in our schools?
MR. LONG: I think that's a challenge before all of us.
REP. LITTLEJOHN: Are you going to stand in the way of parity in changing this performance funding?
MR. LONG: I don't think I would stand in the way, but I don't know, again, all the history to sit here and say exactly what my position would be down the road. Because I mean the last six months I've had has been a great opportunity to learn.
REP. LITTLEJOHN: But you would want to see all the schools funded based on their MRR?
MR. LONG: Yes.
REP. LITTLEJOHN: Mission resource requirements?
MR. LONG: That's right.
REP. LITTLEJOHN: You wouldn't want to see parity of all the schools, no matter what school it is?
MR. LONG: Excuse me?
REP. LITTLEJOHN: You would want to see parity or equal funding in all the schools in South Carolina?
MR. LONG: Just straight across the board?
REP. LITTLEJOHN: No, based on their mission.
MR. LONG: Right.
REP. LITTLEJOHN: Based on their mission, we need parity there to fund for each school. Each school is based on that. You would want to see that out?
MR. LONG: Yes. And one other thing along the lines of -- I think one of the things that I've heard when we talked about the research university or having the three universities under a separate umbrella, so-to-speak, one is the ability to go out and raise monies, and one of the comments I heard, and I don't know how realistic this is, but an example I had was like at Furman University and South Carolina got monies at the same time to build a soccer stadium, and Furman is playing in their soccer stadium now, and we're still in the planning phase of using that money or the stadium that we're going to have and that sort of thing. And I think that's one of the things that's been discussed, the raising money and being able to react quicker with the funds that we receive. So I don't know exactly where that goes, but I have heard that as well.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any other questions? Thank you, sir.
MR. LONG: Thank you very much. I appreciate it.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Next candidate is Ms. Flora C. Hopkins.
MS. HOPKINS: Good afternoon.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Please raise your right hand. Ms. Hopkins, do you have any illnesses the Committee needs to be made aware of? Oh, I'm going to swear you first. The information given here today will be the truth, nothing but the truth, so help you God?
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Do you have any illnesses the Committee needs to be made aware of?
MS. HOPKINS: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Do you hold any professional or business contracts that would cause you to have conflicts of interest?
MS. HOPKINS: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: All right. Do you hold any other elected or funded positions in your community that would cause a dual office holder?
MS. HOPKINS: No, sir.
MS. HOPKINS: Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to speak to you today and would briefly like to give you just an overview of why I'm interested in this position and why I feel that I could be of some service. As you know in looking at my credentials, I finished the university a long time ago, over forty-five years as a matter of fact, and have graduated three different times with three different degrees. I also sent a daughter here that I would remise if I did not say, that graduated and went on and was accepted to Vanderbilt Medical School. So we feel like in our family that the university has served us well. I can truly say that since I finished in the early '60s it gets to be a better and better place to be from, and I think that's what we want it to be and be good ambassadors to the university. The main reason that I'm interested in this is that I feel that with the experience that I've had in the past in public service in a variety of capacities, both serving as an elected school board member and as mayor of the city, I served on the Board of Trustees at Coker College in the past, that with the community service that I have done, that I have reached a point in my life where I could be of some value to the university and it has always been so important to me, that this is why I'm offering at this time.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Thank you. Any questions of any Committee members? Rep. Littlejohn.
REP. LITTLEJOHN: Ms. Hopkins, you've heard my comments on parity and the performance funding and all. How do you feel about that?
MS. HOPKINS: Well, that's a topic that we discuss quite often. As you know from looking at my resume, I am in public education. In the area where we live, we have Frances Marion University, Florence-Darlington Tech and of course, we have Coker College, which is private, and then you've got USC Sumter fairly close by. We sometimes feel that there needs to be a more definitive approach to what each of these institutions is doing. For example, in the public schools in our vocational programs, we would like to work more closely with Florence-Darlington Tech, for example. We would like to see them working with Francis Marion. I've looked at this Board of Regencies in other states and my opinion is there are some ways that we really do need to go back and streamline this. I find, for example, and I'm not saying this in a critical way, but many of our tech schools seem to view themselves as more like junior colleges. They are expecting students to take courses for two years and then go on into a four-year college, and I think we would need to go back and look at the original intent of some of these schools, like for example, the campuses of USC. I think there are about five around the state. What purpose they serve. Are they two year or four year, because I think there's a way this could definitely be streamlined and being in education right now, revenue is utmost on our minds and ways that we can improve our serves and streamline our organization. So yes, sir, I would support that and have thought about it for quite some time. But I think this is very important. Not just for the revenue but just from the standpoint of better serving the students of this state.
REP. LITTLEJOHN: You do realize that Francis Marion is probably one of the schools over funded? You do realize that?
MS. HOPKINS: I've pretty well kept up with this stuff, yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Rep. Short, excuse me, Sen. Short.
SEN. SHORT: Are you familiar with the proposal that has just recently come from the three research universities that they be taken out and treated separately under a different commission?
SEN. SHORT: Could you tell me what your view is about it?
MS. HOPKINS: Well, I think it goes back to what I said. I think we really need to look at what the different missions are. I know earlier I think you mentioned about, you know, pricing our local South Carolinians out of the market with SAT and that sort of stuff. I think that's one of the balances that I see that we're going to have to really be careful with, and that is you want to be nationally recognized and you want to be able to compete as it relates to research and you know, being well known and this sort of stuff, but also I think that the public universities in this state really we need to consider how much we need to put out to educate our own students. I think that's a balance that we're going to have to keep in place. And this is true even in other states, like I said, the University of North Carolina where the out of state requirements are much more strenuous than those that live in the state. But to me, I think there's an inherent danger in one group or one organizations being pulled away when you're using the same pot of money basically for that.
SEN. SHORT: Rep. Littlejohn earlier referenced that there were thirty to forty professors who didn't teach any classes, and I believe you have taught some as an adjunct professor at South Carolina?
MS. HOPKINS: I have.
SEN. SHORT: I'm not aware, I was not aware of that so that was a surprise to me, but if that is in fact true, do you think that's a good idea or a bad idea or is that common across universities, or do you know?
MS. HOPKINS: I don't really know, but I do know that in Darlington County School District, you wouldn't be able to not teach if you were employed. And I don't know the ins and outs. That does seem like a large number and yet, not knowing say, for example, like research and other kinds of things that people are doing, but there again, it goes back to the mission of the university. Are we research based or are we teaching? You know, I think you have to have a balance between the two and so, you know, say somebody's working on some engineering project or something that's researched based that may or may not be funded by say corporate funding or something else, but if I were one looking at it, I mean involved, I would certainly want to find out what that was about. The classes that I taught for USC were primarily graduate courses. I taught at the Coastal campus. I taught at USC Sumter. I've taught at USC Aiken. We, but those were graduate students and normally class size ranged between twenty-five and thirty, so they got their good out of their adjunct people.
SEN. SHORT: Thank you.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With your background in the public schools, I would just be curious. Do you think that our universities or higher education in general are preparing our young people for the challenges in the work force?
MS. HOPKINS: As much as it can, because it's so ever changing. I think that it's, for example, they say that only, in about twenty-five years, only about 10% of what we know now will be of any value to us and so, as it's ever evolving faster and faster, I think we are, and I think also in looking across the boards, public education and universities, what our challenge is going to be is to help students know what to do with the information and to be able to think things through and to utilize that information. I don't think there's one sacred body of material that every person needs to know to be literate. A lot of what I learned forty-five years ago is no longer relevant. You know, so we were disposing of some text books, which is always a very volatile issue, and people wanting to know why, and I say well, it keeps saying one day women will have the right to vote, so we think it's time for that one to go. But yeah, I think that's certainly, you know, something that we need to think about.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any other Committee members? Thank you, ma'am.
MS. HOPKINS: Thank you.
MR. JONES: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Mr. Jones, please raise your right hand. The information given here today will be the truth, nothing but the truth, so help you God?
MR. JONES: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Mr. Jones, do you have any ailments that the Committee needs to be made aware of?
MR. JONES: Not that I know of, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Okay. Any business or professional that would cause any conflict of interest to be elected?
MR. JONES: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Do you hold any appointed or elected positions in your community that would cause a conflict of interest?
MR. JONES: I do serve on the Darlington County Disability and Special Needs Board, which is an appointed position. I just finished a two year term as chairman, and I believe I would have to resign that for this Board.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: You would, if elected, you would resign?
MR. JONES: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Thank you, sir. Go ahead with your short statement.
MR. JONES: Yes, sir. Mr. Chairman and members of the Committee, I'm very happy to be here. My name is Rick Jones. I'm an attorney practicing in Hartsville and I've been practicing there since 1985. Prior to that time, I practiced on the other side of the state over in Oconee County. I, along with my wife, both went to the University of South Carolina. I graduated in '73, received a law degree in '76. My wife graduated in '73 and has a Masters Degree in Speech from the university. I have served in various capacities of both public and private. I served on the city and county counsels in McCormick prior to coming to Hartsville. After coming to Hartsville, I was a city judge for a term. I've been on various civic and social boards. In addition to that, I was privileged to be a part of starting a new bank in Hartsville about four years ago. I feel that I have a wide and variance experience in the number of different segments of the business, professional world and hopefully could offer something to the university. One of the things I think about the University of South Carolina, of course I have been very proud to be an alumni of South Carolina and give everybody the opportunity to know that every chance that I get. As all of you certainly well know, we're in troubled financial times, and I think it's going to be an awesome challenge to continue to provide quality education at all these universities given the current financial situation we find ourselves in.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Questions? Rep. Littlejohn.
REP. LITTLEJOHN: Mr. Jones, you've heard the comments about parity and all. USC is certainly at the top of the list over funded. You and your wife being alumni, do you favor parity for all the schools in South Carolina based on their mission?
MR. JONES: Yeah, based on their mission, I think that I do. I think that it's a situation that as you're talking about the various challenges that are facing all segments of government, you're talking about the Board of Regions situation, you have so many diverse universities and colleges in South Carolina. It's very difficult to fund them equally based upon their performance until they all reach a certain level. If they're at that level, the job becomes fairly easy.
REP. LITTLEJOHN: Well, that's what parity is all about. There's a point of funding them equally based on their mission, that can be done. CHE has tried to do that, but their hands have been tied over and over by whoever.
MR. JONES: Yes, sir. And I understand that. Again, I think it's a situation where each university certainly has their mission and their goal and their dedication to providing a quality education of their college.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any other questions?
SEN. SHORT: Mr. Chairman.
SEN. SHORT: He doesn't get off that easy. That wouldn't seem fair to everybody else. Do you know what the average SAT score is for a USC student now?
MR. JONES: I think it's slightly over 1,100, but I don't know the exact number.
SEN. SHORT: Do you think there's any danger at this point in the university becoming so elite so as to the South Carolina students will have a very difficult time graduating from Carolina or getting into Carolina? I think once they get there, they're okay.
MR. JONES: And again, one of the comments of one of the other members, I'm not sure I'd make it in right now.
SEN. SHORT: Most of the people I know feel the same way.
MR. JONES: That's right. But again, I think times are changing. Our kids are getting smarter. They're scoring higher and higher on the SAT. Again, I think the SAT though is only one measure of the potential success of the school.
SEN. SHORT: I hope it's only one. I certainly hope we are not putting all our eggs in that one basket now. Are you familiar with the university's proposal that the research universities be --
MR. JONES: Just what I've heard in the newspaper.
SEN. SHORT: Do you have any comment about that proposal and how it might impact the universities?
MR. JONES: Again, I think sources of funding, as so many of the candidates today have mentioned, are a tremendous challenge. Separating the research and going after the private dollars is certainly a situation that I think is well worth exploring. The governing of that particular phase of the university becomes again another section of concern because, as mentioned before, there are too many levels right now of governments, not only in the university section but also in all sections of government. But I certainly think the sources of funding are requiring unique and challenging efforts to fund additional research facilities.
SEN. SHORT: Thank you.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Would there be an interest in the way you would do the job as a member of the board to look at the dollars spent on someone's education based on an average as to how it costs say at the main campus versus the satellite campuses? Should there be a correlation between the cost of operations for students?
MR. JONES: If I understand, yes, I think there should be. My understanding of the, again, satellite or regional campuses of the university, they provide an opportunity to get to the point for students who may not be able to afford the main campus to get there so that they can complete their education at the main campus. Certainly I think there's some duplication of cost in some of those areas, and it may be necessary to do that in order to meet that particular program of the university.
SEN. ALEXANDER: I was getting ready to say, granted there's a cost. At what cost or at what time does that cost stop being a benefit to those students and a detriment to the other students that are trying to get their education?
MR. JONES: Absolutely. Again, depending on the dimension of the university, I think that there are certainly duplications in the tech area and satellite campuses of the university. I don't know if I can answer that, but certainly I think that some coordination needs to be looked at in order to make sure that we're getting the most bank for our buck, so to speak.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any other Committee members? Thank you, sir.
MR. JONES: Thank you.
MR. SMITH: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Mr. Smith, raise your right hand. The information given here today will be the truth, nothing but the truth, so help you God?
MR. SMITH: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Mr. Smith, do you have any ailments that the Committee needs to be made aware of?
MR. SMITH: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: In your business or professional would not cause any conflicts of interest if you serve on this Board?
MR. SMITH: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Do you hold any elected or appointed positions within the community that would cause a dual officer holder?
MR. SMITH: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Go ahead with your short statement, sir.
MR. SMITH: Thank you, sir. I'm here today with my wife Joanne. This was a family decision for this candidacy for the Board of USC. I have had a great deal of work experience since graduating from the University of South Carolina in 1975. I attended a year of graduate school. I then entered the University of South Carolina Law School, which I graduated from in 1978. Upon my graduation, I worked with the Attorney General's Office before I went into private practice in 1982. I have been involved in numerous government organizations such as serving as county attorney for Darlington County. I have served as attorney the Darlington County Water and Sewer. I have served as an associate professor for Limestone College in Florence teaching classes at night. I have been involved actively in the South Carolina Bar Association. I am a member of the Alumni Association. I am a member of the Gamecock Club. My family has been, my oldest daughter Jo is at graduate school at USC. My wife's youngest daughter Laurie is a freshman at USC. We have two other daughters that are in colleges at this time, so we have four daughters in college. We have had to practice fiscal conservatism. I think that our life experiences have taught us a great deal about college life and expenditures necessary for the student to be there, and I feel that those experiences make me a very good candidate for this position.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any questions for Mr. Smith?
REP. LITTLEJOHN: I have one.
REP. LITTLEJOHN: Mr. Smith, a Board of Regency has come about as some of the Governor's proposals. How does higher ed, how do you think the major universities, higher ed, fit into that Board of Regions as far as maintaining their identity? You think they can do that under a board like that with keeping their mission in mind?
MR. SMITH: It certainly makes economic sense to try and have something, a governing body like that. Each university in the state seems to have its own identity, and I think the specific identity that each has dictates the mission for each university. I believe that -- how large a board would you have to go to? When you look at the University of South Carolina, there are actually twenty-one board members, if you include the Governor. You have sixteen judicial circuits. You have two governor appointments, and you have the president of the Alumni Association. You also have the Secretary of Education. That's twenty-one. I'm certain that Clemson has that many also. But, you know, today we saw that there were six for Coastal Carolina. Each board has a special attention that it has to focus on in each university and the needs that they have there. Again, my understanding is that most of these positions serve on a voluntary basis. It is a, of course, your reported by the General Assembly. As a Board of Trustee member, you are answering to the General Assembly. I believe that we actually work for you.
REP. LITTLEJOHN: One last question. Do you think this is an end run though to keep from being oversighted of losing their authority?
MR. SMITH: I don't. I feel like if you put all the universities under one board, it sure does give authority to a very limited number of people, an awful lot of authority when it comes to fiscal budgeting.
REP. LITTLEJOHN: Do you question the timing though on this? Even though there was no talk about the Board of Regency last year, now you come up with these schools wanting to stay out from under it.
MR. SMITH: Well, you find that in some way, I found when I served for the government as an attorney, you know, when you received funds from an area, you certainly don't want to start giving it away voluntarily, and you're afraid that if you do, if you say look, we don't need that money anymore, we'll just do without, then a time comes when you need it, it's hard to go back and get it. And in these times with so much debt, the economy is in such stress, you know, I think we're talking about a difficult situation to deal with, and I think we do need fiscal conservatism in looking at things we're doing.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any other questions? Sen. Alexander.
SEN. ALEXANDER: I would just like to follow-up on one of the questions that Rep. Littlejohn has been asking as far as the number of folk that maybe are on the payroll of any university that are actually not teaching classes. What would be your philosophy in that regard?
MR. SMITH: If you're going to receive a paycheck, you should be working. I feel like at the university we have a tremendous faculty here. I don't know if the Senator is aware, but there was a campaign over the last seven years where the university sought to raise five hundred million dollars. Of that amount, twelve million was provided by the faculty and staff. USC tries to be a family to look out within itself, to support itself and to try to be a good neighbor to Columbia. I think that's important to be a good neighbor with the city here. I believe that when you have faculty members that are being paid and they're not working or teaching classes, then I would certainly hope they are on some type of study sabbatical prepare some type of research grant or doing something else that will further the benefit of the university. If they're not, I think the Board of Trustees and the administration here has to examine that more closely.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any other questions?
SEN. SHORT: Mr. Chairman.
SEN. SHORT: Do you think there is a point that the university could reach where it would no longer be serving the needs of South Carolina students? I'm referring again to the elitist atmosphere that seems to have permeated not just Carolina but the other research universities as well, and I personally am concerned that we're going to eliminate so many of our students.
MR. SMITH: I am, too.
SEN. SHORT: And they won't be able to attend. Do you think we can go too far in raising academic standards?
MR. SMITH: Part of the reason I'm here as a candidate was my concern over a young lady, who is the daughter of a good friend of mine in Hartsville. She was actively involved with the yearbook staff, student government. She served in official capacity in the student government. She was a cheerleader. She was involved in probably about five or six different aspects of high school life. She wanted badly to come to the University of South Carolina, and her SAT score was only 1,000, and she was not accepted, and she had all this extra curricular activity that took away, even though her grades were significant, her SAT score seemed to be something that when I was making calls for her and making inquiries for her, seemed to be a resounding point over and over. Well, she didn't have the necessary SAT score. I learned with my wife's youngest daughter that there were approximately 3,500 freshman in this class. The average SAT was 1,124. Now, I would not have gotten in. I would not have gotten in. The honors program is something like 1,280, was the SAT. I think that the University of South Carolina needs to be a school for the children of South Carolina, and I think that we need to be looking at ways for those children to be at the state's university, if they so choose.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any other questions. Thank you. I want to say that I certainly enjoyed serving with your father on cross committees in the House when he was a Senator, Bruce Smith.
MR. SMITH: Actually, he is my brother.
MR. SMITH: And he is very active at Clemson University, so our holidays are lots of fun.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: I didn't know if he was your father or not.
MR. SMITH: That's all right.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Thank you, sir.
MR. SMITH: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Okay. Mr. Eugene P. Warr. Please raise your right hand.
MR. WARR: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: The information given here today will be the truth, nothing but the truth, so help you God?
MR. WARR: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Mr. Warr, do you have any ailments or illnesses that the Committee needs to be made aware of?
MR. WARR: No, sir. I do not.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Is your professional or business background something that would cause you conflict of interest if you were elected?
MR. WARR: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Do you hold any appointed or elected position in your community that would cause dual office holder?
MR. WARR: Mr. Chairman, I am presently serving on the Darlington County Economic Development Board and perhaps that would, and if elected to the Trustee position that I'm pursuing here, then I would I believe have to resign from that.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Yes, sir. Go ahead with your short statement.
MR. WARR: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman and Committee, appreciate you all taking the time to come hear all of us today. My background is basically that I've lived all my life in the small area of Lamar, South Carolina in Darlington County. Grew up on the farm. Raised by a mother and father who were both also farmers and raised in farm families. I'm often asked how is it that having your South Carolina background and why I'm interested in the University of South Carolina with that background, maybe I should be interested in another large school in the state. Basically, the answer to that is my grandfather, many years ago, my Grandfather Warr had polio as a young child, was severely crippled. He too being raised on a farm, assumed you would not be able to make a living in that state, so he came to the University of South Carolina, graduated with a degree in journalism. He still went back home and worked on the farm and primarily made his living on the farm anyway. But he also wrote most of his life with the Charleston newspaper. Since that time, most people in my family who have gone to college, with an uncle to Clemson now and then, have gone to the University of South Carolina. I was raised in a family with a big university influence. I was raised in such a way I suppose to influence on me was that as a young boy I knew that my college days would be at the University of South Carolina. And so it's a pride knowing my family when I went to school here. My intention was to go back home, like my father had done, and work on the family farm. My father tried to tell me that times had changed and that was not a good thing to do, but I went back and learned the hard way and after a year of tough weather, I learned it is hard making a living farming, came back to the university. Went to law school. Graduate in 1985. Went back to Darlington County to work as a lawyer, which I have done since 1985. During that time, I've continued to do other things and other business ventures. I've been involved in real estate development for about twelve years, done some other business things trying to make a living in addition to being an attorney. I found that I don't like sitting behind the desk all the time. Basically, I believe the experiences I've had in working as a lawyer, representing individuals, small and large businesses and also in dealing with the business problems I've had through the years of my outside affairs, I believe that that, along with my interest in the university, keeping up with it through all these years, qualify me to serve on the USC Board. That's why I'm pursuing this position. And I am now ready to try and do my best to answer any questions that you might have.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any questions of any Committee members? Rep. Littlejohn?
REP. LITTLEJOHN: Same question I've been dealing with, parity in our educational system in South Carolina. How do you feel about that?
MR. WARR: Rep. Littlejohn, if I understand issues out there correctly, it appears that the funding formula that has been suggested has not been put into affect, has had, as you've referenced today, a lot of problems being put into affect for whatever reasons. It would appear to me that if one school was trying to educate, for instance, a nursing student and another school is also trying to educate a nursing student so that both of them would have similar degrees or the same degree and be qualified for the same job, that they should be allowed the same amount of funding for that. Now, if one school is primarily educating engineers and the other is primarily educating business people and it cost a lot more to educate the engineers, then I believe the school that has the higher cost involved, that should be taken into account. But all those things being equal, it seems to me that the parity of funding is the most fair. I know that the University of South Carolina might be one of the schools that would suffer from that. It may be that the complete and sudden withdrawal from the excess funds for whatever reason would cause some hardship, I'm not familiar enough with why they would be funded more than some other schools. But if that's the case, then I think that should be taken into account. But ideally, all things should be on a level field for educating similar or the same degree.
REP. LITTLEJOHN: You do realize that parity is not getting the same amount of money. You've have schools with the declining enrollment and the decline in other performance factors that are still receiving more money than other schools, so the same amount of money is not what we're after. It's the parity of the schools getting the right amount of money based on their mission. Giving every child in South Carolina $5,000, that's not what parity is. That's not what we're after.
MR. WARR: Rep. Littlejohn, if I'm following what you're asking me now, what you're stating, I mean I do not, as long as the, and what I was trying to say there, too is as long the goal in mind is, the goal that's trying to be accomplished is kept in mind. What you're trying to accomplish with a particular school and a particular degree program, if that's kept in mind, then I see no reason why places shouldn't be treated equally. Now, as far as whether or not it involves exactly the same amount of money, Rep. Littlejohn, I am not familiar enough with the process through the years and how it all stands to truthfully answer that. I just don't know enough about that now.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any other questions? Sen. Short.
SEN. SHORT: I'm just going to go ahead with the same line of questioning you've been in here hearing me ask about the same sorts of things to all of the candidates. If you could just respond first to the proposal that the three research universities be withdrawn from the commission's oversight, if you're familiar with that proposal, and how you think that would play out for the university and the other schools and also what you think about increased requirements for attendance at USC.
MR. WARR: Thank you, Sen. Short. First of all, as to the three main universities, research universities, as I understand is the Medical University, Clemson and South Carolina, pulling out of or being taken out of from under the oversight of the Commission of Higher Education, it's my understanding, and I have to say that all I know about this is what I've read in the newspaper, it's my understanding that if those schools feel that they would be in a better position to go out and create partnerships with private business, partnerships such that they could increase facilities and research so they could do other things that they presently feel they're handicapped in trying to pursue because of the restrictions and the rules that the Commission on Higher Education place upon them. But whether or not that's correct, Sen. Short, I don't know. If that's just the argument that those schools make, I realize that could be the case. But if what I read in the paper is true and if they do have the better side of that argument, then, Sen. Short, I must say that I may be eventually one who would support that position, Commission on Higher Education. It's a handicapper rather than something that's helping those three research universities, who need to carry the ball in a lot of ways in this state, then I would probably be in favor of that proposal. As to, I hope I've completely answered your question, Senator. As to the other question you have dealing with the requirements of the university, I believe, if I'm correct in what you're asking there, as far as the requirements for attending the University of South Carolina?
SEN. SHORT: Right.
MR. WARR: Senator, I've always felt that the University of South Carolina should be for everybody in this state first. It should be for the citizens of this state first. Its mission should be to educate the people of South Carolina so that when a young man or woman is growing up, they can hope, like I did, to go to the University of South Carolina. There are other great schools in this state, but as a child, South Carolina meant a lot to me. There was a point when I was a child where I thought South Carolina encompassed all of my world. I was real disappointed when I learned that was not the case. I've always had a lot of pride in this state and the state, University of South Carolina. If we ever get to the point where you must have a super high SAT score or be in the top 5% of your class such that you can go there, I think that would be wrong because it would not be serving the majority of the citizens and tax payers in South Carolina. It would not help us, I believe it would not help us overall on trying to accomplish what the University of South Carolina needs to do and that is educate people in this state, be a place that educates people from this state, who hopefully will stay here, well so that they will be productive when they get out of the university and have a degree so they're qualified and so they help this state move forward. Also going back, I just want to mention one thing about the first part of your question there, for this state to ever be what it needs to be and be like some of our neighboring states, I do believe that Clemson, the Medical University and the University of South Carolina need to be able to continue to improve their positions as research universities. They need to be able to go out and pull in the private partnerships and the dollars that it takes to further the cause here in South Carolina in economic development, so that when IBM Corporation or whatever the case may be looks around this country for a good place to go, they can look at South Carolina just as good as anywhere else. We need that, and I believe that anything that would help the major research universities in this state accomplish that, I'm in favor of it.
SEN. SHORT: Do you think that it's appropriate for the Commission or somebody to have the authority to direct the university or a college to eliminate a major if, for example, it's duplicated many times across the state and they have a very small number of participants in that major?
MR. WARR: Sen. Short, I certainly do. There's got to be some oversight. There's got to be a boss somewhere in that because otherwise, with no one to call the hand there, problems will develop no matter how well intentioned the people who are running it may be. Problems will develop, and I think that there does have to be some type of a party somewhere that says this is a use of money that we can't afford, a use of the funds is just not going to fly. I believe that has to be the case.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any other Committee members? Sen. Alexander.
SEN. ALEXANDER: One question. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Did you attend all four of your years for your BS at the campus here in Columbia?
MR. WARR: Sen. Alexander, I did.
SEN. ALEXANDER: And you were residing in Lamar at the time?
MR. WARR: Actually, Senator, I stayed here. During those years, I did live here in Columbia. During my law school years, I lived here in Columbia except for the summer when I went back and worked on the farm.
SEN. ALEXANDER: But Lamar was home?
MR. WARR: Yes, sir. Always has been, still is.
SEN. ALEXANDER: What made you decide to come to the Columbia campus?
MR. WARR: Senator, when I thought at the age of seventeen when I made that decision, when I thought of the University of South Carolina, I thought of as being in Columbia, that that's where I would go. Now, I could have gone to one of the regional campuses. I could have gone to USC Sumter certainly. USC Sumter would have been twenty, twenty-five miles from my home approximately, but to me, coming here and being here the entire time was important, being part of the atmosphere here, learning what it was really like to be off from home at college was something I needed to learn. I was very much at that age a home-loving person, and I probably at that age needed to get a little ways away from home.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any other Committee members? Thank you very much.
MR. WARR: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: That concludes the University of South Carolina. What is the pleasure of the Committee as far as screening the candidates out?
SEN. SHORT: Move in favor.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Ms. Short moves to screen them out favorably.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Second by Rep. Littlejohn. All in favor signal by saying aye.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Opposed none. I consider all of you a candidate and on 3/6, March the 6th at 12:00, you may secure votes. Thank you very much. You're willing to stay if you want. We have one more. Otherwise, have a nice day. Well, we're clear off the wall. The wallflowers. Okay. Wil Lou Gray Opportunity School at large. We have three seats. Mr. Vince Rhodes could not be here today. He will be screened at a later date. The others are Mr. Lowell C. Spires, I'll just call him Butch. First cousin Jackie Knotts, don't hold that against him. Come on up, Butch.
MR. SPIRES: All right, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Please raise your right hand. The information given here today to be the truth, nothing but the truth, so help you God?
MR. SPIRES: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Mr. Spires, do you have any ailments that we need to know about, do you, sir?
MR. SPIRES: It would be a surprise to me if I do.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Do you have any business that would cause a conflict of interest by serving as to the Wil Lou Gray School, does it?
MR. SPIRES: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: You don't have any other appointments that exist in the community that cause dual office holding, do you?
MR. SPIRES: Not that I'm aware of.
MR. SPIRES: I appreciate the opportunity on being with you. It's been interesting. I have enjoyed my first term at the Wil Lou Gray School Board, and as I sit and listen this morning, I want to make a comment about that. It's interesting to hear them discuss the Board of Regency and to hear them discuss pull out three schools essentially and discuss 1,100, 1,200, 1,300, 1,400 SAT and how they talk about how that process works and yet, Wil Lou Gray, our situation is totally different. We deal with young men, young women from sixteen to eighteen and our major goal, quite frankly, is to get them to change their lifestyle issues where they have been problems with status process and such as that. Our goal, quite frankly, is to simply keep them in the structure of a military program we have, the ROTC program, the youth challenge program, and trying to get them to pass their GED testing. We're in our tenth cycle in our partnership with South Carolina National Guard and youth challenge program. We run two cycles per year. We are working very hard within the budgets that we have been allotted by you folks to make that program do what it needs to do. Our enrollment is the highest it's ever been or it's been since I've been a part of the board. This past July out of the cadets that took the test, we had seventy-one who passed the GED. Our best possible year previously was ninety-one for both cycles, so we feel like that with the cycle we're now setting out to accomplish, if we're going to set a new record for the number of GED equivalencies. We handle about twenty-five, thirty females and about a hundred and twenty to a hundred and thirty males. If I could say what it is I think we need to do, it would be from a lifetime of involvement with youth. I started as a senior out of high school and helped to organize and coach a little league football program in 1980. I served as the first chairman of the Lexington County Rec Commission. I have for thirty years gone to all the ball fields and give away softballs and baseballs. I've been involved in booster clubs. I'm most probably the oldest person at the Earl Davis Elementary School PTA meetings. When I say that, that's just where my children went. They no longer attend nor does any of my grandchildren, but I still joined the PTO. I still go to PTA meetings there. In the lifetime involvement with youth in the community and the church and everywhere else, our mission and our purpose is so significantly different in a way from what you've heard about this morning. Our need is, quite frankly, we can handle two hundred students if we had the funding to do it. We have the facilities. We have the buildings. We have made some definite improvements in our facilities and in our buildings and the appearance of the grounds, but we simply don't have the money. I don't understand a competing program being set up down, so-to-speak, in the low country. I know you challenge the process. I know they are working and struggling for money, but I'm confused as to why that was undertaken when we had a campus facility and the ability to handle more people and we're short of the two hundred, two hundred and twenty or so people we could have handled. We have so far successfully handled basically 8.73% budget cuts because we have been responsible with our dollars. I am told that possibly next year we're looking at $345,000 cut because we're no longer covered as the other educational institutions are. For whatever reason, we've been taken out and set over to the side. I don't understand that, but that's a decision I don't have the ability to be a part of in making. I do know that it's another $345,000 cut on top of what we've already had. We're going to have to look very seriously at some of our staffing problems. I would like for us to be put back in the protected area of the other educational institutions. Not set off to the side as we have previously been. The other needs we have because of the age of our campus and such as that is at the Governor's recommendation of the bond bill, we need some of the money for the heating and air conditioning systems in the facilities. I want to be careful here because I don't want to necessary mix what I have been doing for four years and what I desire to do for another four years with other issues. But I come from the local government prospective. This state does not need eighty-six school districts. This state does not need ten regional counsels of government. That hasn't been realigned since they were created. There are some counties that are in other cogs that they basically don't have anything in common with because of the growth of the state, the transportation system and all the things that have taken place, it just simply needs to be looked at. For example, the Central Midlands cog, I served in, there are four counties, Fairfield, Newberry, Richland and Lexington. Kershaw is now a part of that poor quality planning and yet, we formed an economic develop alliance that now encompasses Calhoun, Kershaw, Richland, Lexington, Fairfield, Newberry and quite frankly, other counties ought to be a part of it. We don't need thirty-three institutions of higher education. I'm not sure we need all the tech schools we've got. I'll stick my two cents worth in and hope it doesn't offend anybody. Maybe what the thing to do is pull teeth in the Commission of Higher Education is maybe is to reconstitute the process that oversees that. I know that I've lived in this state all my life, and I've chosen to stay here. I'm in my fourth job only because the first three companies I worked for tried to move me. My feet are in the sand of Lexington County and that sand holds the world with y'all. I don't intend to leave it. When I go, Thompson's Funeral Home will have a fight. But I love this state. I've traveled it since '59 to make a living. I've been all over the place, very active in a lot of things in this state. What it takes is a little bit of courage and a little bit of will. The Trustees can't answer some of the questions you we're asking today. They can only react to what they have the authority to do. That authority comes from the General Assembly reports. I hope that as we look at things, that we look at a lot of things, and I hope we'll look at a lot of things that will make us a better state, a better area to serve our communities. We fit somewhere in between the children who need to be off to juvenile justice, the wilderness camp program, those who quite frankly so gone and so far that they need to be dealt with by the justice system, meaning prison and such as that. There are many children who would qualify for our program, and we're making a significant difference in a lot of lives. But we need to re-evaluate even all those things and see how we categorize and how we assign and where we put folks who need the help that Wil Lou Gray School gives. So having listened, what I hope comes out of it is that it will not be politics as usual. I want there to become the liberty of process, debate, discussion, and there will be facts and logic and a myriad of questions will be dealt with in a responsible manner. That's Butch Spires' two cents worth in his world. Be glad to answer any questions.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any questions of any Committee members? Sen. Short.
SEN. SHORT: Butch, your honesty and openness is very refreshing. We appreciate it very much.
MR. SPIRES: Been that way sixteen years.
SEN. SHORT: You taught me something that I didn't know about Wil Lou Gray, and I'm assuming that means then that no diplomas are offered at the school, only a GED is an option; is that correct?
MR. SPIRES: That's what we, that's what our mission and what our purpose is.
SEN. SHORT: Okay. I did not know that. That surprised me. I know that there has been some interest or there has been some discussion about the wilderness camps, the increased numbers at DJJ, which I think is a really positive thing, but I think Wil Lou Gray has some options and some opportunities for students that perhaps are not being recognized throughout the state. Do you think part of the problem is that high schools within the state are not aware of the program enough to be sending students there?
MR. SPIRES: We've done a good job of promoting, and we've done a good job of getting out and building our enrollment process. Quite frankly, our competition from the school districts come from the basis of alternative schools, in-school suspension programs. Because the dollars stay with the students, a lot of students they have a problem with and can't deal with other than in conflict issues, they will not release or recommend them to us because the dollars will not stay in their program, and because it becomes a numbers and dollars game, they will not refer them to the program that they really need to be in.
SEN. SHORT: Does a student have to still be a student within a school district? In other words, what if the student has been expelled from the school district? Are they no longer eligible then for attendance at Wil Lou Gray?
MR. SPIRES: No, ma'am. They are still eligible if they can come through our screening process and meet the criteria process. Our difficulty is we depend solely on your folks for budgets. We have a very limited foundation process and yet, because of who we are and the type of people we deal with, it's often a partner, private sector for matching money for grants and such as that. Although that's something that we're talking about as the Board's looking at it. But the schools who should refer students to us simply don't do it now to the point that they finally lose them, and then they end up on the street or they end up in some other type of issue program so that some other agency of the state governing ends up dealing with most of them, quite frankly.
SEN. SHORT: In general, DJJ?
MR. SPIRES: And they won't send them to us because they don't want to lose those dollars. They'll hold them as long as they can to maintain that first year dollar.
SEN. SHORT: I wonder why they wouldn't make that recommendation at the point of expulsion because they lose the dollars then anyway. I mean --
MR. SPIRES: I'm not aware of --
SEN. SHORT: I know you can't answer that. That's probably not a fair question.
MR. SPIRES: No, ma'am. All I know is we have gone in the schools, we've gone into DSS situations, we have gone to other state agencies and tried to promote what our program is and can do for those young people who need that regiment of military, the ROTC and the smaller classroom situation and such as that, and we've got an excellent mentor program that works very well with the students. We have turned some people's lives around significantly with what we've done. Our thing is that if we're only dealing with a hundred and thirty, forty, fifty, and there are literally hundreds of young who need the type of program that we're involved in.
SEN. SHORT: I congratulate the school on accomplishing it's mission. You're doing a really good job. Thank you.
MR. SPIRES: Thank you, ma'am.
REP. HINES: Do we understand you to say that your, maybe because you're so successful students are not referred to you, because it seems to me that having the kind of success stories you do have with students, that people would be motivated. Motivated to send them there, but it seems like to me that you might be being penalized because they don't send them to you for training. Is that --
MR. SPIRES: No, sir. They don't. As long as they can hold on to them and they can tolerate their lifestyle, their behavior patterns or whatever it is they do, as long as they can tolerate it and keep that state money per student, they hold on to them as long as they can, including the in-school suspension programs and the alternative school each district tries to run. That's another area that needs to be evaluated, quite frankly, folks. I mean gosh, everybody is going into alternative schools, everybody's gone into the in-school suspension program such as that. There again, we need to evaluate these young people. We need to find out who at this point needs the process that Wil Lou Gray, Department of Juvenile Justice or our wilderness camps and such as that can provide. You can't lump them all together. I assure you that if you put them all together in one place, the biggest, badest guy in there, who is to the point of not being able to be redeemed, he will dominate that one that can be redeemed. The strong will always, whether it's strength for goodness or strength for badness, will dominate the person who is weak and needs to be structured and put on the right path. And those are simply one of those areas, in my opinion, that need to be looked at.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Questions? Sen. Alexander.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just an observation. It sounds like from listening to those folks this morning you would love to be in there position from an ending standpoint of being able to raise tuition to deal with, I mean that's not a bad situation to be in.
MR. SPIRES: I'll be honest with you. I really thought here this morning, God, I would love to have the problems these guys are complaining about.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any other questions? I want to commend the school on the job they do and to tell the Committee that Wil Lou Gray has gone out and have had hearings throughout the school districts in the state and tried to get guidance counselors aware of programs that are developed for kids and the age and criteria to attend Wil Lou Gray. It doesn't seem to affect them because of the simple reason, he has just told you one, we want those dollars to stay in our school districts and want those in-school suspensions. In Cherokee, we've gone into alternative. We've got alternative. We've got in-school suspension. We've got both of them. We've got a double-barrel situation. We don't refer anybody to Wil Lou Gray.
MR. SPIRES: You've got a gun that shoots about six barrels.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: That's true. But they have come, and I want to commend you, Pat, who is the director here, Pat Smith, for the job that he's done and the board members. I know first-hand that they do a tremendous job because we've had a couple people from Gaffney on that board and we know the reactions and we know what happens at Wil Lou Gray. There's an age limit. Butch tell them the ages the kids can come.
MR. SPIRES: Well, it's sixteen to eighteen and we left it because of the federal process because it comes through the South Carolina National Guard to be a challenge program. Because they have limited dollars to provide the cadre, as we call it, to give the twenty-four hour supervision around the clock, we have a teaching mission in the educational process such as that, and of course, we run the feeding programs and all those things. So it limits us as to what we can do. But the campus and the buildings would easily accommodate two hundred, two hundred and twenty students, if we had the funding process. We have the best working relationship with the National Guard right now that we've had since I've been involved with it. Now, we had a couple go to Jesus meetings with them, including general speakers. That way we had a recent understanding. I did say a while ago that all these Colonels, although listed as reverends, I've been in the public sector marketing business with waste management. I've never met a colonel yet retired, a Lt. Colonel or full bird colonel who didn't know more than God. Okay? So the same thing is true with the National Guard. But after we had some go to Jesus meetings and explanations of things, we reconstituted our agreement and we, I'm happy to report we have the best relationship that we've had with the National Guard. Col. Lavardee is now in charge of that program. He has been excellent to work with and a lot of good things are going on. Somewhere in all those dollars though, among alternative schools, in-school suspension dollars, wilderness camps, Department of Juvenile Justice and such as that, I'll tell you now there's no better thing for the buck than what we're doing. Because we're not only getting people some degree of education, a skill and degree, we're changing lifestyles. That's important, and we're doing it without the law enforcement officer being directly involved in it. We need the funding to accomplish what our facility has the ability to do, and budget cuts just simply make it very hard. I understand it's hard times, but somewhere in all this process, if all this were to be evaluated, in other words, if you set up a base closing commission, okay, simply said all right, tell us we need all these school districts, we need all these higher institution and learning places, and we need all these programs, and then let good, solid, sound business people make that decision. Everybody being represented and then either bring it back and it's either up or down. You know? I mean, I don't know that other than that we'll have the political will to deal with it, because everybody is instituting general economy, and civic process. Everybody is interested in general republic, and until we put that aside, we'll continue to struggle for dollars to fund everything.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Just a couple observations. There's nothing that's unique about that situation and what Sen. Short and I sat in on a children's study committee that as far as the problem they're having with alternative schools and things like that. People get very protective of their dollars, unfortunately, from that standpoint, but from what I'm hearing, the reduction in their funding, I'm sure that my friends in the House will work to get that put back into the budget under the education standpoint, so that they won't have that, and if that happens, I think you'll have our commitment to work on the Senate side to keep those funds in there to make sure that they don't suffer the consequences of the budget that they seem to be doing. And I know we've got another individual to be screened so --
MR. SPIRES: We can survive and live with what's taken place, okay? We can't stand $345,000, folks. It takes time and courtesy.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Thank you. Okay. Our next is Mr. George C. Ducworth. All right. I have to swear you.
MR. DUCWORTH: I have just one quick thing. My middle initial is wrong on there, Mr. Chairman.
MR. DUCWORTH: It's M, and in middle name.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: All right. The information you give here today to be the truth, nothing but the truth, so help you God?
MR. DUCWORTH: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: And do you have any illness or ailments that the Committee needs to be made aware of?
MR. DUCWORTH: Not that I know of.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: No conflict of interest?
MR. DUCWORTH: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: No employer that would cause a dual office holder?
MR. DUCWORTH: No, sir.
MR. DUCWORTH: Well, it's nice to be the last one. I know y'all are glad to get to the last one. But as you know, I served as solicitor of the Tenth Judicial Circuit for twenty years and during that time, I became very interested in at-risk kids, and I was very instrumental in starting a number of programs for at-risk kids where we elaborated with a number of different agencies and utilized a lot of volunteers to make a difference in a lot of young, at-risk kids lives at a very low cost. And I was instrumental in starting the alternative school in Anderson, which is much different from most alternative schools in the state. I want you to come see the alternative school. It's doing what they're supposed to be doing, and I think the other alterative schools in the state ought to come see what they're doing up there. And I think there's a place for them, and there's definitely a place for Wil Lou Gray School, and I would like to see what Wil Lou Gray does expanded and be able to impact on more kids than it does. I don't think there's any question that if we spend a little money on at-risk kids, we have a whole lot better chance of turning those people around and making good tax paying citizens out of them than we do waiting until they get to be hardened criminals and then having to build more prisons and put them in prison for long periods of time. So that's why I'm interested in serving on Wil Lou Gray School Board. I'll be glad to answer any questions.
SEN. ALEXANDER: Mr. Chairman, it's not really a question. I know of his work up in that area in dealing with the youth program and has served on I guess it's the Youth Council?
SEN. ALEXANDER: And I was on his first two grand juries as well and just appreciate your willingness to serve the Wil Lou Gray School Board.
MR. DUCWORTH: Thank you, sir. I was looking at the Wil Lou Gray award the year before last, too and that's when I really got interested in serving on the board here.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Any other questions?
SEN. ALEXANDER: I think they both qualified.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: That concludes it and is it the pleasure of the Committee of screening out both candidates?
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Sen. Alexander moves that the candidates be screened out.
SEN. SHORT: Second.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Second by Sen. Short. All in favor signal by saying aye.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS: Gentlemen, we declare you a candidate. You may solicit support at 12:00 on the 6th.

AT 1:21 P.M.)
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(On motion of Senator GLOVER, with unanimous consent, ordered printed in the Journal.)


The following Joint Resolutions were read the third time and ordered sent to the House of Representatives:


By prior motion of Senator MATTHEWS, with unanimous consent


By prior motion of Senator HAYES, with unanimous consent


At 11:29 A.M., on motion of Senator JACKSON, the Senate adjourned to meet next Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 12:00 Noon.

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